law 4 update so less roundstart bolting AI core shut and APC off

[Lyndomen]

About the PR

yaml, Survive: Do not allow unauthorized personnel to tamper with or damage your equipment. Allow those authorized to access your equipment.

Why / Balance

AI gamers were bolting their core shut and turning off APCs because why not. erm powergaming

Technical details

Media

Requirements

• I have tested all added content and changes.
• I have added media to this PR or it does not require an ingame showcase.

Breaking changes

Changelog

🆑

• tweak: AI have a slightly updated law 4, ensure authorized personnel may access your core in an emergency!

[Bonktrauma]

This won't stop roundstart bolting, it just means the AI will be ensured to let captain and nysta inside

[LanceLake]

Laws don't override S4. If this is meant to change behavior, then S4 needs to be removed.

[LanceLake]

This won't stop roundstart bolting, it just means the AI will be ensured to let captain and nysta inside

If the Captain or Mysta want to change the AI laws, then S4 overrides that. It overrides ALL laws. So yeah.. This won't do the effect you are expecting.

[BellwetherLogic]

Yeah, I don't understand the purpose of this.

But I also don't understand how something that is at best a speedbump to authorized personnel, who have remotes that can unbolt your doors and who can toggle APCs by hand to ninja law change you without warning, is powergaming.

[Tryded]

As others have said, this change will not accomplish anything because the AI can say that any tampering with their equipment even by authorized personnel is a violation of all of their laws as if their laws are changed, they are unable to uphold their current laws.

[LanceLake]

As others have said, this change will not accomplish anything because the AI can say that any tampering with their equipment even by authorized personnel is a violation of all of their laws as if their laws are changed, they are unable to uphold their current laws.

Exactly. It's a nothing burger. Perhaps people should think more carefully (or ask about things in the discord) before posting up law changes.

[Lyndomen]

Exactly. It's a nothing burger. Perhaps people should think more carefully (or ask about things in the discord) before posting up law changes

Idk I think is a little rude & out of pocket

[Lyndomen]

Regarding other feedback, thanks.

I call the behavior of toggling bolts and APCs off around one's core powergaming because I do believe it is to some extent. Many players have expressed frustrations around AIs doing this roundstart with no clear reason why, which limits the vulnerability that an AI is opening themselves up to (ergo powergaming). There is no reason to suppose that ones's laws will be changed until evidence to the contrary appears.

I worded this PR to allude to the fact that NT representatives likely do have to perform some regular maintenance in universe, and would want to ensure that they have that access. For instance if they need to reinstall Crewismov, they would hope the AI has a permissable lawset.

[LanceLake]

My comment? Perhaps. PR's should be vetted and thought out before posting it. We just had a long discussion about this on Discord. Even though it's already been done, it should have some kind of waiting period before just approving it and pushing it.

[LanceLake]

Regarding other feedback, thanks.

I call the behavior of toggling bolts and APCs off around one's core powergaming because I do believe it is to some extent. Many players have expressed frustrations around AIs doing this roundstart with no clear reason why, which limits the vulnerability that an AI is opening themselves up to (ergo powergaming). There is no reason to suppose that ones's laws will be changed until evidence to the contrary appears.

I worded this PR to allude to the fact that NT representatives likely do have to perform some regular maintenance in universe, and would want to ensure that they have that access. For instance if they need to reinstall Crewismov, they would hope the AI has a permissable lawset.

So discuss it on discord before making a pull request. We already discussed this a few weeks ago and re-discussed it yesterday (and this morning). Making a PR for this is ignoring those who are willing to discuss this with you and going to your parental figure of choice and bypassing the vetting PR's should have.

You were the ass doing an end run around the community. Not I.

[LanceLake]

But... Your complaining worked. You got Law 4 changed. It's not going to stop anything, as you don't seem to understand how the law set and S4 interact. So congrats. You got a law merged in without any kind of benefit.

[Penjuinsocks]

Changing law 4, from an IC standpoint would completely allow cap and mystagogue to change your laws and access your systems and whatnot. However, while I doubt an admin will enforce rule S4 in such case, is not allowed from an OOC rules stand point. Rule S4 perhaps could be clarified to not allow malicious lawsets that NanoTrasen had not already approved for AI use to be used (antimov, overlord, emag for cyborgs)? Just tossing up ideas 🤷‍♂️

[Lyndomen]

Making a PR for this is ignoring those who are willing to discuss this with you and going to your parental figure of choice and bypassing the vetting PR's should have.

what? github is a place for feedback too.

[HTMLSystem]

So discuss it on discord before making a pull request. We already discussed this a few weeks ago and re-discussed it yesterday (and this morning). Making a PR for this is ignoring those who are willing to discuss this with you and going to your parental figure of choice and bypassing the vetting PR's should have.

You were the ass doing an end run around the community. Not I.

Lance I think you need to take a break from discussing this topic for like, the rest of the day because you have been incredibly hostile to Lyndo on this pr and on discord.
Also, github is a place for feedback, and lyndo is not the sole person that allowed this to get merged. Colin and Delta also had to approve it.

[Tryded]

Changing law 4, from an IC standpoint would completely allow cap and mystagogue to change your laws and access your systems and whatnot. However, while I doubt an admin will enforce rule S4 in such case, is not allowed from an OOC rules stand point. Rule S4 perhaps could be clarified to not allow malicious lawsets that NanoTrasen had not already approved for AI use to be used (antimov, overlord, emag for cyborgs)? Just tossing up ideas 🤷‍♂️

It does not do that because law 1 precedes law 4 and if the AI’s laws are changed they can no longer uphold law 1 to the letter of the law, therefore law 4 is void.