MS-plus: are ZD2 from MS-plus compatible with G1Four/etc, and vice-versa #87
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There are also some differences in the |
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I just added some options which might help us... Something like :-) |
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Attempting to install MS effect on my (broken screen) G1Four... The real question is whether I can actual load it into a patch, which is a little more difficult with the broken screen. Current patch is empty Convert ID to 7-bit hex and install to current patch (slot 0) Decode screens changes, but does NOT display the name Downloading current patch does however |
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If i revert the effect to the B1Four version, it does show on 'screens'. This at least means the pedal is not 'broken' by uploading the wrong/MS-plus version. Note: when forcing the ID, we only changes the number in the header of the ZD2, nothing within the Code segment as altered. |
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Alternate approach, take the Code from the MS effect and jam it into B1 effect file. This means that all the other segments are 'as-was'... 'Screens' works, and it even makes sound when triggered... Now I am doubting myself, did I screw up process or trick myself? And a fresh download from pedal And I even power cycled pedal to confirm that it does/still works after.... it did! So does this mean that there's something OTHER than the Code segment that's preventing it working? |
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There's not too much different; first 'ZDLF' segment and the 'final bytes'... I can quickly rule out the final bytes. So it seems that's its the first segment, which isn't fully parsed by my scripts: |
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So it looks like the Byte (or ULint32) after the checksum is a 'target pedal'... changing 0xA0 to 0x07 lets the original effect (with altered ID) run on the G1Four. |
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Scripted Whole process repeated for MS-plus' ZNR effect Freaking Awesome! |
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Did you get the MS+ ZNR effect to run on your G1Four? :-o |
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Yes, after adaption both MS-plus BOMBER and ZNR ran on my G1Four - it's screen is broken so a little awkward to control... @thammer I'd be interested what value the MS-75CRD+ and MS-50+ use for the 'target' byte I believe that this is a bit field, and the effects for a single pedal seem to have overlapping values. ie the true value for MS-60B+ is 0x80 and 0xA0 overlaps this. |
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Since you have the MS-50G+ and MS-70CDR+, can you please do a summary ('-s -m') print of the effects on each? Like |
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Here are the summaries for MS-50G+ and MS-70CDR+. |
Here are the first 16 bytes from OPTCOMP.ZD2 from the MS-70CDR+:
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... and this is the start of VIBRATO.ZD2 from the MS-50G+:
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Thanks for the sorted lists, I've uploaded. Looks like IDs between MS-50G+ and MS-70CDR+ roughly match, but there is major 'collision' with MS-60B+ ID's... maybe this is deliberate to make sharing effects (as pedals/patches would be confused with duplicate IDs). Here are all the ZD2 effects the GL7 knows about. I think that if this 'target' is a bit-field, it may be of required capability (more memory, double screen, expression pedal) rather than particular pedal model. None of these bits overlaps the MS-plus values... For example does '0x08' (in 0x0f) mean that the effect requires an expression pedal? |
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'0x0F' seems specifically for 'OUT_VP', other PDL effects are '0x07' '0x04' is only for G6/G11, so likely the AU output or maybe some other high-capability |
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You can call me crazy... but I went for it.... Preparing Icon Preparing and uploading AUTOPAN (from the G1Four selection) And... this is the result. The audio function also worked :-) Note: I strongly recommend caution, and to disable auto-save. You don't want a bad effect to be stored in patch to automatically reload when pedal reboots.... |
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Why not to try using the |
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@nomadbyte
Longer answer: According to the list that was uploaded, it had the MS-50G+ and MS-75CDR+ using (respectively): The 'SFX' group on the MS-60B+ is moved to '0x09', '0x07' is used for 'PITCH SHIFT' Yet to be understood how ID's on the MS-200D+ are allocated.... PS. I picked AutoPan to try the process, as there was a question on Reddit about how/if the Compression/Limiter effects worked in stereo, or whether then summed signals to mono first... |
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I'm not sure if you tried to cross-list the effects from the MS+ series vs. G5n/B3n series to see how much overlap is there. My guess is that ZOOM repackaged majority of the ZD2 effects for use on the G2 FOUR and MS+ series. Exception, of course, is the AMP/CAB and some DRV effects, which now have special handling (the Multi-layered IR and something on the MS-200D+). My point is that there's more expectations in establishing if the new ZD2 are safely portable across the MS+ series. |
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All of the effects from the MS-plus and G-Series are listed (just TXT summaries, no ZD2): I don't have summaries for the G2 and B2... if anyone want to share. I did some comparison with MS-50G+ to MS-75CDR+ and there's some overlap, but for some reason (memory?) the CDR has 'updated' versions. Don't know why.... perhaps Zoom is just being a dick. If someone (with access to effects) wanted to export all the 'Code' segments, that would clarify whether it's just the wrapper (ID/Groups/etc) changing... or whether these actually are different in operation. As stated; I think that the |
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The number of parameters are often different for the "same" effect om the MS-50G+ and the MS-70CDR+, as can be seen in the effect list downloadable from the Zoom website for these two pedals. The MS-50G+ versions of the effect tends to have fewer parameters, I think. |
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Regarding the clashing effect IDs - is there anything preventing us from just assigning a different ID to an effect? |
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The presence of 'balance' param might suggest better operation in the stereo field. Maybe you have information helpful to this Reddit user... We can do anything with the power of the command line ;-) I believe that the ID is not actually used within the 'Code' segment, just as a way of the pedal managing effect files and installing the right DLL when the patch is loaded. I did think about the 'middle' bytes of the ID, perhaps someone (who is NOT this project) might use this to indicate which pedal the ZD2 effect came from (ie byte is good to encode 50, 60, 70 or 200)... their tool could even be smart to zero this out when 'uploading' with the native pedal. |
Here you go: So the code segments differ in size. The MS-70CDR+ one is larger. I converted the code segments to hex strings and did a diff on the resulting files |
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There are some Linux cross compilers and a 'free' Windows one from TI, but to be honest this is above my level of competence. The There's the RainSel/RTFM stuff which was done on OG MS pedals, perhaps would be useful if anyone wanted to dig deeper. A Reddit user did a demo video, and comments have links to details. |
The immediate answer is NO, it looks like Zoom have jeri-rigged the ID and Groups to be different between the series
The symbols listed in the ELF Code segment are very similar, and there are relatively small difference in the hexdump of the Code
These symbol name differences might just be as the ZD2 has been re-compiled. Looking at a 2nd effect (ZNR) it has completely different number symbols too...
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