diff --git a/Mathematics/Experiments/README.md b/Mathematics/Experiments/README.md
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+most of these don't work
diff --git a/Mathematics/Experiments/alternative_group_representation.lean b/Mathematics/Experiments/alternative_group_representation.lean
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+structure GroupLike (T: Type) where
+  bop : T → T → T
+  inv : T → T
+  id : T
+
+section group
+
+-- TODO local
+variable { T: Type } { on: GroupLike T }
+
+-- TODO can this be moved into the class definition?
+set_option quotPrecheck false
+infix:100 "⋆" => on.bop
+local postfix:120 "⁻¹" => on.inv
+
+class Group (id := on.id) where
+associativity : ∀ a b c: T, a ⋆ (b ⋆ c) = (a ⋆ b) ⋆ c
+identity : ∀ a: T, a ⋆ id = a ∧ id ⋆ a = a
+inverse : ∀ a: T, (a⁻¹ ⋆ a) = id ∧ (a ⋆ a⁻¹) = id
+
+end group
+
+class Inv (T : Type) where
+  inv : T → T
+
+postfix:max "⁻¹" => Inv.inverse
+
+def MulGroup (T: Type) [Mul T] [Inv T] [OfNat T 1]: Type := @Group T ⟨fun a b => a * b, fun a => a⁻¹, 1⟩ 1
+def AddGroup (T: Type) [Add T] [Neg T] [OfNat T 0]: Type := @Group T ⟨fun a b => a + b, fun a => -a, 0⟩ 0
+-- TODO ComposeGroup
+
+namespace theorems
+
+variable { T: Type } {on: GroupLike T} {g: @Group T on on.id} { a b c: T }
+
+set_option quotPrecheck false
+infix:100 "⋆" => on.bop
+postfix:120 "⁻¹" => on.inverse
+
+theorem left_identity : on.id ⋆ a = a := (g.identity a).2
+theorem right_identity : a ⋆ on.id = a := (g.identity a).1
+
+-- does't work :(
+theorem inv_inv : (a⁻¹)⁻¹ = a := by
+  rw [←left_identity (a⁻¹)⁻¹] -- ...
+
+end theorems