Automation editor redesign

[matthiasdebaat]

Ryanan shared some redesign ideas in Discord, resulting in a number of design iterations by a couple of people. This prototype is the current state and in the Figma design you can find the work in progress.

Biggest changes are:

• Mobile first approach
• Using dialogs for adding triggers, conditions and actions
• Using chips to summarize a trigger, condition or action

What do you think of the design? Feel free to share your feedback in Figma comments or in this discussion.

[reubenbijl]

Looks great, the biggest issue I've personally found when using the automations interface is understanding what values are expected in changing to and from states. So, say for example a door, is it open, closed, 0 or 1, and what does the capitalisation look like? Do I need to use an entity property? I think being able to select from previous state values for an entity would be really useful.

[matthiasdebaat]

Great suggestion to show previous states.

For your example about the door I would suggest in using device

[svh1985]

I like it, this can also make the nested conditions a lot cleaner. Also; I think it's also important to add some visual structure to the nested conditions (eg adding card bg-colors, lines) to better differentiate the different conditions and hierarchy. This should make working with complex nested conditions a lot easier.

[svh1985]

@matthiasdebaat what do you think?

[matthiasdebaat]

I like it! Currently I'm working on something different. If anybody wants to make a detailed design in Figma, feel free to do so!

[woodmj74]

I think that would really work well - as mentioned its really easy to get lost in the current UI especially with nested conditions (which are so useful). A simple change of losing the boxes and having some lines would be good start

[kentivar]

This looks awesome! It would be great if you vlick on the top level header in each choice and or condition, action headers an make it collapse :)

[kentivar]

Also, if we had the abillity to add comments to each choice, action or condition and not only a general comment on the whole automation :)

[sim-san]

I saw a library from google which is used to build small code snippets with visual blocks.

The Blockly library adds an editor to your app that represents coding concepts as interlocking blocks. It outputs syntactically correct code in the programming language of your choice. Custom blocks may be created to connect to your own application.

https://developers.google.com/blockly/

Maybe this can be graphically customized and adapted to Home Assistant. I just wanted to share my thoughts

[matthiasdebaat]

Thanks for your suggestion! The fun thing is that Domoticz is using Blocky for their automation editor. It has its pro's and cons functional and technical. I like that it's easy to read an automation, but personally I like the original idea of Ryanan better.

[matthiasdebaat]

@emufan The way you communicate isn't inviting to respond. For the sake of making a better Home Assistant better product for all of us I've tried to summarize your input:

• People who actively adjust their HA don’t want to have everything hidden behind several ..., submenus, etc. For example Advanced settings.
• People that uses HA less than once per month think that this concept is “oh yea, much prettier”.
• Go for the direction svh1985 suggested, but do not hide anything from the UI, which you need to edit.
• You don’t see the need for mobile first, because (at least on iOS) it’s not really usable for such tasks. Desktop is better because of the screen size and keyboard shortcuts.
• "Everyone who has a different mind and opinion is stupid (…) and has to be insulted."
• This concept is deterioration for desktop.
• Why change? Are there statistics? What about me?

Feedback to me personal

• Do you use Home Assistant? “Or do you only look for UI in terms of design and completely ignore the daily usability.”
• “Put on the hat and always look on usability, fewer clicks, no hidden options, ..”
• “Or is it only because a new UI designer is in da house.”

So first about me, so we can talk about Home Assistant again. Yes, I have been using Home Assistant for a few years including the YAML live. I'm a educated and experienced designer, so I know a lot about usability, accessibility, and perhaps the hardest part, knowing your users. No, I'm not changing anything because I'm a designer, but I'm addressing pain points that a group is going to improve on. That's it, please stop making it personal about me.

Home Assistant has a lot of user types, one of which you represent. As mentioned before, there are users who want to do everything on mobile. Whether this group is larger or smaller than the group that prefers desktop does not matter. The need exists. Mobile first is a handy trick to make things nice on mobile. That doesn't mean the desktop will deteriorate, and this automation editor concept doesn't even have a desktop design yet! About hiding, things are already hidden. You are can't automate on your Home Assistant landing page. The question is to make it logical, to give information just in time. That's a matter of taste and discussion.

[Petro31]

@Petro31 literally right here:

I use mobile 90% of the time just not for config changes - i'm all for improving it, just not making it the priority. I love the color coding and the formatting changes proposed, just don't focus them on mobile due to some mobile limitation. I also stated this previously:

If I'm off base on this, then it's only due to the stated goal i circled in the screenshot above.

Yes, I see that goal. And maybe this is where we think differently. When I see mobile first, I understand exactly what the goals are: Make this work for mobile. As a developer of 15+ years, that usually entails what I described above. It's the idea that a keyboard and mouse don't exist and Y scrolling should be reduced as much as possible. You can definitely make a UI that works well both for mobile and desktop. For example, my home assistant configuration for lovelace is designed around using it on all platforms. So I removed all dropdowns, text boxes expand the entire view or they are popups that ask for entry, everything else is a button. The UI looks and feels great for both desktop and mobile. That's all that were doing here. "How can we take the existing UI and make it work for both platforms".

[Petro31]

@emufan did you actually read any of the responses? You keep talking about this 'hide everything' and I've mentioned at least 3 times now that the discussion on that is open.

As for the his comment about desktop/mobile, he's referring to the Figma designs. He saying he hasn't even shown what it would look like in desktop. Can you just stop trying to twist words around to win an imaginary argument and actually constructively join the discussion or leave. I don't care which one you do, but your current approach will not last.

[reubenbijl]

Hello, and Merry Christmas,

It’s great to see some engaged users of Home Assistant contributing to this thread. I’ve just been through trying to understand where this is currently at and I feel like the biggest theme is the disagreement of the feature goals. I’m not an active member of enough of the various Home Assistant communities but feel like there must be a better place for this kind of discussion?

To quote Paulus - “ You should not have to adapt to technology”. Perfect Home Automation. To me one of the successes of Home Assistant has been the relentless desire to keep making it simple to use and the feature goals support this intent well. If only designing a complex feature that works well for every user, regardless of the technology they have at hand was so simple.

[Petro31]

Don't understand (perhaps of my English capabilities). If he writes, that there will be a desktop design and you now as well, that it is not clear how it will kook like on desktop, this is 100% a statement, that it will not look the same as on mobile. But currently this is the case (e.g. on config admin menu), isn't it?

No. It will look different but similar. He was implying that he hasn't mocked up the layout yet in his design program.

But the "Please leave the discussion, if you don't like, what we plan" is again your already postet "Everyone who has a different mind and opinion is stupid (…) and has to be insulted.".

More word twisting. I gave you an ultimatum. I did not say your idea was stupid. I said join the conversation constructively or leave.

And I constructively asked what the basis for the ongoing task are, Is there a poll or a telematics evaluation, how many users is using this UI on mobile and on desktop to balance at least the changes accordingly.

You've been given the reason. You aren't accepting it. Ask again and you'll be violating the COC due to trolling and harassment. If or when that happens, only you will be removed. Not @jspanitz, not anyone else in this thread. Just you.

I'm working in software development as well and there always ask the developer to listen to the majority and not to develop only because of their own mood and ideas.

Again, this is not happening. You are claiming this is happening. I'm not going to repeat myself.

[Petro31]

Sorry, this is unbelievable. And only because of this, I replied once again, even with the risk to get as threatened banned because of other opinion.

No. Let me be clear. It's not because of your opinion. It's the way you are addressing the situation. Take @jspanitz for example. He has been nothing but cordial in this exchange and he does not agree. This is you and your attitude. Period.

I'm a mathematician and I live with statistical significance of voting, evaluations, etc. and I'm pretty sure that "other users" without counts, statistics, see who is using what (esp. configuration) on which platform is the opposite of building HA balanced to the usage.

You're asking for data that doesn't exist and you know it, and you're badgering about it. The data we have are purely what we see on a day to day basis from other users. I'm sorry but I'm not going to sit here with an excel sheet and mark down each person I come across that likes or dislikes the current UI.

You've voiced your displeasure in any change on the UI and you refuse to offer any suggestions to progress it. So what's the point of being here if you have nothing else to add other than frustration and anger?

[spacegaier]

Yes please, let's stop that feud (that is turning more and more towards personal accusations / attacks) that is just running in circles and let's get back to actual content.

[balloob]

I've blocked emufan from participating for 7 days for ignoring directions by moderators and developers to be constructive and stop repeating his message. He failed to comply. His behavior is trolling and actively derailing any constructive feedback and discussions.

[rahaaas]

This may not be the right place to chip in...

I’d really like to see collapsing elements in the editor. As a refugee from HomeSeer, it’s the one aspect of UX that I miss.

I know it’s also been suggested (#11468 and #13156), but I think it would also work extremely effectively with the current direction laid out here.

Once a choice is made in each section, it can reflect just the current setting when collapsed, making even complex automations significantly more readable / rearrangeable, especially on mobile.

It’s also entirely optional, so the only disadvantage is development complexity, but even that should be scalable.

EDIT: Looking at the designs in more detail, I guess this would mean removing as much of the space / furniture as possible, and just leaving the actual actions, which can then be uncollapsed to edit.