Showcase of experiments with GoPro 11 Labs settings #160
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A rather extreme low light test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAQKnCsyyX0 This was filmed in the late evening and basically complete darkness. The lights on the bike and my helmet combined with the white snow creates a challenging scene for the GoPro with an extreme dynamic range. Surprisingly, there are no blown out highlights, so it's possible to extract a lot of data from this footage. The ISO noise is excessive, partly due to the nature of the scene, but can be greatly reduced with post-processing. An interesting trade-off exemplified here is that a faster shutter (1/200) will allow the hypersmooth stabilization to work quite well, at the cost of more ISO noise. This is a cut version that has been edited in Resolve and rendered in UHD 120mbit/s before being uploaded to Youtube. It was originally filmed in 4:3 and stretched to 16:9 in post. This footage has not been graded or processed outside of the editing and stretch to 16:9. Standard settings:
Labs settings:
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Good stuff. The Low light test would benefit from a pass through NeatVideo. Setting NR01=1 with a high ISO, is intended for post noise reduction. There is more coming in the next Labs version to allow you to push further. I've been experimenting with -3 and -4 EV combined with LOGB=400 or similar. The EV compensation extensions are to be in the next Labs release. |
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Here is my contribution to LOGB=400 NR01=1 testing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsJKA-rr0Ko Standard settings:
Labs settings:
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Wow, what an incredible scene! :) I am observing similar dynamic range characteristics to what I have seen with my tests. Very interesting. A couple of questions:
I have a shadow recovery test at ISO 800 coming very soon, I've already uploaded the videos and will make a post as soon as I've finished some work stuff here. |
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There is some basic color correction, overall exposure and shadows lifted. Some color to try to make the subtle rainbow show more. I am able to record at these settings. 24fps likely helps. |
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Hello guys I have a Problem: Labs settings: SanDisk Extreme Pro, 128GB, exFAT yesterday i tried 3 times with 8 bit (everything worked till i stopped the recording after around 5 minutes, worked flawlessly... today I tried it with 10 bit on, any my recordings 5/10 have stopped randomly sometimes it worked for 5-6 minutes sometimes after 3 minutes it broke up.... what can i change to still have 10 bit and NR=1 (which Bitrate is reliable?) or is it maybe because of the 10 bit or because of the NR=1? (I think NR=1 = off should make less Processing power for the GoPro or am I wrong?) The sad part is, I though everything works perfectly and I travel south east asia right now, so there is no Time for flying in the same spot a few times.... I really want a field testet setting that never stops my recording (FPV Flying, turn the GoPro on and start recording when everyhting else is ready for takeoff..) Thank you guys... |
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Another set of samples, this time testing low light shadow recovery with max ISO = 800. Raw clip from camera (16:9 SuperView): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-4_EW59sdQ Standard settings:
Labs settings:
My notes: On a sidenote, it seems that 60fps footage is compressed quite hard on Youtube, so the noise characteristics are somewhat camouflaged by compression artifacts. On my local computer these clips look much better. The original ungraded video file can be downloaded here in case someone wants to experiment with grading. In conclusion I learned the following from this test:
My next set of samples will focus on full frame footage in the norwegian winter forest, and after that I will look into 24fps+200mbit/s. |
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From that clip's metadata I run a subtle Neat Video denoise pass and small shadow lift to see if that helps Youtude. Only on 25s. Also run it through Vimeo for comparison. Seems 4Kp60 is really hard on these tools (with so much texture and detail.) A crude measure of information loss. The same frame extracted from the source, Vimeo and Youtude is compressed to JPEG as 1608KB, 1308KB and 1134KB respectively. So source > Vimeo > Youtube. So the down side of captioning more information, is finding a way to share that quality. |
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Good catch! I wasn't entirely sure if I used EXPX or EXPT on this clip. I will update my post and videos.
Hah, cool! Neat Video seems to do a very good job. The improvement is definitely apparent on Vimeo, but perhaps less so on Youtube. I haven't tried reducing the noise in post myself, but I am planning to test spatial and temporal noise reduction in Davinci as well as NLMeans with Handbrake (although NLMeans seems to be terribly slow).
Very interesting! Those numbers seem to agree with my subjective experience. Are you using screenshots to extract these frames, or some other method?
A luxury problem, thankfully :) |
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Went for a small stroll in the forest on sunday and gathered a few more LOGB=400 shots in varying lighting conditions. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXJoXiofMm4 These are full frame clips that have been cropped top and bottom to 16:9, which I seem to like the most for these kinds of shots. The footage is graded slightly with a warmer temperature and a few other color tweaks. Sorry about the squeaking, it was very cold and my backpack apparently was not too happy the temperature. Standard settings:
Labs settings:
My notes: Tomorrow the temperature is forecast to rise up to around -8 celsius, which means I can get some more footage without losing too many fingers. Stay tuned :) |
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Hi quick basic question, if I leave all camera settings as unset in labs and program in my shutter max/min and bitrate etc, as permanent I assume whenever I change between video modes the settings for labs carry across? |
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Yes. Labs settings in the form !Mwxyz=? are global, implemented for all presents and modes as appropriate. |
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Perfect, thanks. |
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Hi, I sent an email, there is a bug in the app, if I select LOGB the code produced Is LOGO=400 the text description is also wrong, if I select LOGO I get the text description for the LOGB details in app. It appears some other items are out in the app, it’s like a new item has been added but placed all the descriptions one place out. Another issue I am struggling to understand is the shutter max and min, the following code does what I want MLOGB=400!MEXPX=100!MEXPN=900!MBITR=180!MNR01=1!MEXPS=1 but the me the expn (minimum) should actually be the max shutter not minimum? So the code is saying max shutter=100 and minimum=900. |
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I have also reported this to the app author previously. He mentioned that this will be fixed in the next version, but I don't think that version is available yet. I am not sure if the app author is associated with GoPro, by the way.
I must admit that this has also confused me a little bit. I am used to thinking about shutter speed as maximum = faster/shorter and minimum = slower/longer. |
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Out of curiosity, do you make your changes permanent (I power cycle a lot) or just on a shot by shot basis? Trouble with permanent is subsequent photos look terrible. I may reset and just have a few main settings on a per shot basis. |
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I only use the video features on my gopro, so all my settings are permanent. I believe you can use the !RESET command to reset all !M* commands: https://gopro.github.io/labs/control/actions/#reset-actions |
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EXPN and EXPM and shutter times in 1/value form, so while !MEXPX=100!MEXPN=900 seem like is it backward, the setting 1/100 is greater than 1/900 (MAX > MIN.) |
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Yeah it makes sense of course. This is just one of those concepts in photography that are kind of backwards but get sort of burned into your thinking after a few years. The value 1/100 is a larger value as you say, but also a slower speed -- and 1/900 is a lower value, but a faster speed. Faster > slower. Larger > lower. Just have to not think about it while punching in the QR code 😂 |
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The daylight is slowly coming back here in Norway and I finally got to do a short ride in the snow-covered forest trails nearby. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpganRr_B4w Edit: I've also published a longer version (7:30) with slightly less saturated colors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtM8OxVIsnA These are full frame clips that have been squeezed to 16:9 (similar to hyperview). The footage is graded with Davinci Resolve Studio, and I have applied some distortion correction as well as temperature correction. There is no noise reduction applied in post :) Standard settings:
Labs settings:
My notes: GP11 5.3k 60fps with noise reduction enabled and ISO 1600 There is a significant difference in ISO levels in these screenshots, but on a stock GP11 this is necessary in low light conditions to maintain hypersmooth performance. Also note that the quality of the footage is reduced by Youtube's compression, but it's still miles and miles better than the footage you can hope to achieve with a stock GP11 in low light conditions. A highly appreciated bonus is that hypersmooth works extremely well even in very poor lighting conditions with these settings. |
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Looking good, I may experiment more this weekend. Here in Scotland it’s pretty grim weather at the moment. Just dull and grey.. |
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sadly I have the mini since 3 days, and have not been able to run it stable: Labs settings: NR01=1 SanDisk Extreme Pro, 128GB, exFAT (tested multiple times the writespeed over the gopro command (480) yesterday i tried 3 times with 8 bit (everything worked till i stopped the recording after around 5 minutes, worked flawlessly... today I tried it with 10 bit on, any my recordings 5/10 have stopped randomly sometimes it worked for 5-6 minutes sometimes after 3 minutes it broke up.... what can i change to still have 10 bit and NR=1 (which Bitrate is reliable?) or is it maybe because of the 10 bit or because of the NR=1? I really think its the SD card or the GoPro mini itself has problems? The sad part is, I though everything works perfectly and I travel south east asia right now, so there is no Time for flying in the same spot a few times....have already missed some really pretty recordings on my last 3 days... I really want a field testet setting that never stops my recording (FPV Flying, turn the GoPro on and start recording when everything else is ready for takeoff, I am pretty sure its no overheat) do you know what is the threshold bitrate that I should minimum go for, without having Problems with my wished settings? How would I notice that the Bitrate settings are too low? What impact would that have? Thank you guys... |
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I see, this sounds rather frustrating. If the camera has turned off due to overheating then you would usually get a message about this when you turn it back on. So I'm guessing that something else is happening. If the bitrate is too high, then the camera will stop recording and then turn off after a while (how long will depend on your settings). So you might want to try to back off the BITR setting just a smidge (maybe try 170mbit/s?) and see if that helps, or try 24fps instead of 30fps. |
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You can check if there is something written in the MISC/qrlog.txt file on your MicroSD card. |
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my gopro if i run the QR Code labs speedtest says: 620mbs = 77,5 MBps (offiically from sandisk ratet for up to 200MBps) ...can you please run the Command: "SPED" on your GoPro with your MicroSD and tell me what your getting? I would send you a donation if you want for helping me, I really want to fix this issue as soon as possible.... Thank you so much |
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thank you, I made another 2 tests in the evening with 160 but it was just two packs, with 160...this has worked this time (I got no message with overheating actually but I will now run my gopro withouth fan indoors and see if i get a message after the overheating while the next start to your message " If the bitrate is too high, then the camera will stop recording and then turn off after a while (how long will depend on your settings)." The mini shutsdown after just 10 seconds if your not recording there is nothing that you can do about it, at least I found noting working...so I really thing now its about the Bitrate... |
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I checked the MISC/qrlog.txt (my last recording broke up at 13:12 in the file: (nothing that I could readout of it) 2023-02-05 13:09:30] Labs:Main Start |
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if you go for 200mbits on the gopro and it shuts off do you get a text on the qrlog.txt? maybe i can not go with 180 like everyone else because i dont use hypersmooth (so no crop at all) = more data written? or am I wrong? Because I use reesteady in Post |
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That could potentially be related I suppose. I will do some tests with my camera and report back. If it turns out that this is the cause, and it's not a requirement for you that your camera records entirely continuous clips, then you might actually be able to use the new conditional command r made available in the Mini just a few days ago (see release notes). This command simply checks if the camera is recording or not, so I think you should be able to set up a command sequence that checks if the camera is recording and starts recording if not, and then sleeps for 5 seconds before repeating. You will probably run into some annoying side-effects though -- because that camera will be really keen to keep recording as long as it's turned on :) |
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Also I think it's a good idea to move this discussion away from this thread. You should probably start a new thread, or a new issue. |
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where can I stay in contact with you the best? that i dont disturb your thread? I dont understand your message actually... I tried a overheat test I can now 100% confirm, that my cam was not overheated. I forced it to overheat after 15 minutes, and yes i got a message about the overheat and the cam was freaking hot (this was never the case when i was flying) so it has something to do with the non stabilized 180mbit (thats obviously to much withouth the 10% hypersmooth crop)# |
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" I will do some tests with my camera and report back. " - did you already had the time to check that? it seems like the cam needs input on the sensor, just benching it inside laying on a chair will never give me the same problem sadly :) Dont worry last message in this discussion about my problem sorry :( Still with 160 problems...150 seemed good so far but had just 4 tests for now |
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I made a short color grading comparison using Davinci Resolve on four short clips from high contrast scenes. The comparison is made between raw SooC clips and a simple color grade + distortion correction in Davinci Resolve. Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOzD7eoLgmE I've been experimenting with various LOGB settings this winter but I keep coming back to LOGB=400 (along with EV Comp=-2.0). It just seems to give the best all-round results that are easy to grade. Looking forward to trying out the upcoming WIDE and GCMP settings to see if they can help squeeze out even more delicious data from the GP11 :) |
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Labs v2.10.70 has landed, and with that came the new WIDE setting. It's still full on winter here in my part of the world, so the landscape is rather bleak and monochrome-looking. Regardless, I went out for a small ride yesterday to capture some footage with the new WIDE setting enabled. I made sure to visit scenes with challenging lighting conditions to stress test the dynamic range. I've uploaded three videos: Ungraded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFo-vbPt1-A Saying that I graded this footage might be a stretch -- I basically just added a contrast curve, some sharpness, adjusted the temperature, and did some very minor adjustments with a hue vs. saturation curve. Looking at the footage in DaVinci, it's really quite impressive how much data is being captured with these settings. Here's a frame from the footage both ungraded and graded, accompanied by their respective waveforms:
We can see that there is a small amount of highlights being clipped. Since the shadows are a far cry away from being crushed in these scenes, I could probably add EVBS=-1 for a total EV comp of -3.0 to save more of the highlights. Modifying the LOG curve with an offset might be an option too. My initial impression of the new WIDE setting is very positive. It seems to add noticeably more headroom for color grading and artistic expression. Personally I am not very experienced with color management though, so I hope that someone more versed might share some tips or even LUT's to get the most out of these settings. Standard settings:
Labs settings:
Edit: After dorking around some more in DaVinci I found that adding a node with a color space transform seems to bring more pleasing results. Here are the settings I used:
I also changed the timeline output color space to Rec.2020, but that didn't seem to make a difference. I have no idea what I'm doing now, so anyone knowledgeable about this should probably chime in :) |
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To get accurate colors you have to do proper color space transform. Fortunetly Protune Native Flat is a well know gamut since Hero 3+, you can have proper conversion LUT's for it. My recommendation is to shoot with WIDE=1, LOGB=113, NR01=1, EV=-1 / -1,5, high bitrate and use ACES in davinci resolve. |
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Awesome, thank you so much for chiming in! A couple of questions:
I am usually more concerned about maintaining highlights without losing too much shadow detail, for example in scenes with sunsets or sunlight through trees etc. In those cases, LOGB=400 and EV = -2.0 has produced great results. Will I be able to achieve similar results with LOGB=113 and the LUT you linked to?
Do you recommend that I shoot with native white balance in that case, or should I continue using 5500k like I am now? |
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"Protune Native Flat is a well know gamut since Hero 3+" This makes is sound like it hasn't changed, it has. While Protune Native Flat has existed since the last firmware of HERO2, the "native" profile is sensor dependent. As the sensor changes every few generations the color gamut changes a tad. Now since HERO3 GoPro's have used Sony sensors so maybe there is some similarity in the pixel design, but that is not guaranteed. I agree Log 113 is a really solid encoding curve (I was on the design team for that), and it will cover the dynamic range of the sensor. However it was designed for 8-bit encoding, and to limit banding it is not very aggressive in its distribution of codewords per stop (i.e. not very flat.) Logbase 400, is closer to what Protune Flat would have be if designed for 10-bit encoding, and it is little more contemporary in its look, a better match for user expectations. |
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Dnewman, are there any point to use the offset with LOGB? "to mach other log curves, like flog". Maybe but it's still better to use 113, LUTCALC is also familiar with the original value, it can be transformed to any other log format. andrerav: choose the WB you desire but use WIDE=1. The gamut mapping LUT should comes after the contrast adjustement node in resolve. You can get great results from LOGB400 and -2EV but you can archive the same with 113 if you are using 10 bit encoding. And there are tons of LUTs available to original flat. Maybe later im doing a conversion lut for 400-113, but now i dont have Hero 11 to work with. |
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If you are using tools that know LOG 113, then use 113, otherwise you are free to experiment. There is limited point to using a negative offset, this was added at the last minute, for users that really don't understand that a lifted black level (while looking flatter) is not going to help dynamic range. The exceptions: if you have existing LUTs expecting a lifted black (and you don't want to convert them,) and some tool still don't understand full range video (set -64 for broadcast range only tools.) Geeky stuff: A huge Logbase with positive offset has interesting implications for codewords per stop, for those that want to geek out. Try oMLOGB=10000,345 this encodes 11 stops of dynamic range, but it evenly distributes 93 codewords per stop, 93*11 = 1023 (10-bit has 1024 codewords.) This is true log, while no digital camera uses this, it is fun to experiment with. Now exposure changes are simple additions, increase a stop, add 93. In Linear light exposure changes are multiplies, in true log they are additions. |
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I've been trying out a few different combinations of LOGB values with WIDE=1, and today I found LOGB=600 and EV -1.0 to work quite well. Here's a demo clip of ungraded footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U79LgNiBmks Standard settings: Labs settings: In nice and bright conditions like today with strong highlights and dark shadows, these settings seem to work well. Grading this footage is a breeze and produces quite nice results with minimal clipping. Bumping the exposure compensation to -1.0 improves the ISO noise situation while introducing some penalty to the highlights. Here's a screenshot of a scene taken in DaVinci:
Using EV=-1.0 rather than EV=-2.0 seems to be favorable with regards to ISO noise in this kind of light. GCMP also helps out a bit there in fast-moving situations. Edit: I also published a more stylized edit with a warm grading and carefully processed raw audio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9feHZ_OG_4. I think this both looks and sounds absolutely gorgeous! |
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Is GCMP now working in the labs firmware? Assuming so from your post. |
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Not in a public release. |
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Ah, so how do we get the beta version? |
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Not an official beta https://github.com/gopro/labs/raw/master/docs/firmware/lfs/LABS_HERO11_02_10_71_GCMPpatch.zip |
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Many thanks, I will give it a go tomorrow if I get time. |
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i know it's against the company interests, but is it possible to implement LOGB, NR, WIDE functions to work with Hero 10 Labs Firmware? At least the processor is the same, the image sensor interchangeble... |
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It is technically not possible for LOGB, as that needs 10-bit, and HERO10 doesn't have the memory that HERO11 has, so it can't get 10bit (even if that something Labs could do, it can't.) NR01 is a deep hack related to LOGB, so not likely. If HERO10 Labs get a refreshes (not planned at the moment), WIDE is possible, as that works well in 8-bit. |
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And why is 10 bit recording unavailable with the Hero 11 in all of the 4:3 modes? (this is one of the reasons i did not upgraded from Hero 10) |
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Yes, testing. Each not mode adds to complications for testing every feature. As all the premium 4:3 mode have 8:7 equivalent, is it better to have 10-bit on 8:7. |
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Is that a mirrorless camera strapped to your body, or are you just So far, GCMP seems to do more or less exactly what I was hoping for -- foregoing some shutter speed and stabilization performance in exchange for lower ISO noise. With the settings I use here, some jittering is visible in the footage. But the trade-off for less noise is well worth it, at least for my use cases. Standard settings: Labs settings: |
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Custom log curves and then in DaVinci Resolve what to do? To better understand what is going on in clouds and highlights I put 2 Hero11 side-by-side on the window sill and pointed them outside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilLKbolSsRs The video shows side-by-side how (in comparison to ungraded Protune Flat)
By putting this out here I am looking for collaboration with experienced people, with the objective to publish not just videos but "newbie-friendly" DaVinci Resolve explanations. |
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LOGB 200,-128 with FLOG CST could give you more or less accurate results. LOGB400, -120 is a complete mess, i dont recommend to use it. I just created an SLOG3 conversion LUT for you, you can download it from here: Another thing: you should use REC709-A in all of you end conversion, Gamma 2.4 Tag is often ignored by the video players, which mean you can see different contrast in VLC player / youtube / facebook /etc |
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Lovely! Will iterate on my experiments, incorporate your suggestions and at the end will share DaVinci Resolve "templates" / screenshots. Background: I am planning a multi-week bicycle tour this summer; and will have a "dailies" videoeditor/cutter with a DR Free version who will make me rough cuts for social media and to share with family. So I am turning every stone in the workflow, as we will collaborate via a BlackMagic Cloud project and shall have a quick turnover. Regarding the question "So my question is: what's the point of using any other settings than 113?" The objective / the idea is to give the dailies-editor an easy way to click in the DR interface some existing dropdown entries and maybe be done with color grading. All the while the timeline is setup for a revision after the end of the tour. Seems that LOGB200,-128 might just require in DR a color page node with Effect 'Color Space Transform':
And such a node tree can be setup in advance in a Power Grade bin. My understanding is, I might be wrong:
In parallel I am also experimenting with a ColorChecker Passport Video, but the correct positioning in an outdoor setting is no easy. One of these options, ColorChecker or DR-built-in curves, hopefully gives a quick basegrade. By the way, the idea for the LOGB400,-120 came from the tutorial https://mixinglight.com/color-grading-tutorials/gopro-hero11-10bit-log-color-grading-davinci-resolve-ml1202/ (subscriber access). The author is refererencing the ARRI whitepaper https://www.arri.com/resource/blob/31918/66f56e6abb6e5b6553929edf9aa7483e/2017-03-alexa-logc-curve-in-vfx-data.pdf |
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The LUT i provided which converts the 113 FLAT to SLOG3 is accurate, because i created it with LUTCALC. Or maybe it's even better if all matches after film emulation applied I recommend to set the tonemapping method to "clip" for these conversions. Your earlier example clips are low contrast, problems mostly occurs on wide DR scenes, how the clipping handled, how the shadows keeps it's detail. |
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Thanks for taking an interest! Changed my node tree to "clip", will test the LUTs over the weekend. This evening I went out on the bike and took a few shots with LOGB200,-128 and threw them on a DaVinci Resolve timeline. Turns out that when on the Color page in a Color Space Transform node the Input Gamma "FujiFil F-Log" is selected, then DR ticks the box at Advanced > Apply Forward OOTF -- and the blacks get crushed.
I certainly need to revise Whitebalance and Max ISO settings, but those clips that had proper exposure did color-convert quite nicely, methinks. |
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The focus last weekend was again on LOGB200,-128 and how that looks with just a simple CST in DaVinci Resolve. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sSp1qiezAk Bitrate 150 MBit/s, LOGB200,-128 as FujiFilm F-Log emulation, WIDE=1, EV Comp -0.5 and NR01=40 with 30 fps. Graded with just a Color Space Transform as Input Rec709 Gamm FujiFilm F-Log. A bit of noise reduction on the first 1/4 of the video, deflicker and motion blur with a clip speed of 1000. Uploaded as 4k, and a screenshot taken from YouTube as below. For the usecase of the upcoming holiday cycle tour I am happy with the quality. (Where I expect that videography will take a less prominent role in my day-to-day focus.)
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Hello, can anyone tell me whether gopro labs is better suited for gopro 11 than for gopro 12. It seems to me that several functions of Labs do not work correctly on gopro 12 |
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HERO13 Labs is the best yet. |
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Kicking off a new thread to showcase my experiments with GoPro Labs settings on my GoPro 11, with particular focus on bitrate, noise reduction, exposure settings and log curve adjustments. This thread is meant to be a source of concrete information on various labs settings and their effect on the footage. I'm happy to take requests if anyone wants me to test something in particular.
My first test was a simple ride through the city with overall excellent light conditions. The improved dynamic range is showcased around 2:09 when I point the camera towards the sun.
Raw 4:3 clip directly from camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtue8uhPBIs
Graded and stretched to 16:9 (i.e approximately superview): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boelDHDSrN8
Standard settings:
Labs settings:
As you can see, at 30fps I was able to have a stable recording for 4min22sec. The recording was stopped manually. I have not experienced any instabilities with these settings yet.
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