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ETC Community Call 014
2022-02-22
1500 UTC
Discord
30-60+ mins

Description

A casual voice chat to discuss ideas for ETC. All are welcome.

The ETC Discord can be joined at https://ethereumclassic.org/discord

Please join us in the #community-calls channel to ask questions or bring up topics.

Agenda

Spillover Topics

Status

Meeting Minutes

The weekly Ethereum Classic Community Call 014 was held on 2022.02.22 at 1500 UTC on Ethereum Classic Discord.

Overview

During this meeting, the chair made general recaps of ETC Core Devs Call 22, which was hosted by Ronan about rejection of ECIP-1049. Comments were made about this call. Several items such as the new champion, DAO hacker, website concepts, ECIP-1049, ECIP-1096, the hybrid system, compatibility, EVM standard, etc. were discussed at length. The participants shared their ideas and views, the gist of which is as under.

Points

  • RECAP: ETC Core Devs Call 22

    • Overall comments
      • The call was very passionate about the ECT and ECIP-1049. Alex, the author has joined the call. During the call, Ronan expressed some views about the proposal that it hasn't been updated. And there are still things missing in it. Overall, that discussion was very mixed with some ambiguous points. (2:58)
      • Future discussions can be hosted in a more orderly manner through twitter spaces and other techniques. (3:28)
      • The call deviated from its purposes. Invoked by an official editor in the ECIP system, it is a technical call with a specific objective which is to decide whether to move ECIP-1049 or to reject it. For one thing, the call was a core developer call, but four core developers didn't get the chance to speak. For another, the official editor seemed to have his own hidden agenda for he criticized the ECIP-1049 on its format, structural issues, avoiding the reason why he had invoked coal. In the end, it was an editor who used the ECIP-1049 system and pushed a personal agenda to reject a change that he doesn't like, which makes this discussion less productive. (10:03)

  • The New Champion

    • General introduction: Bob Samul is now champion of the ECIP-1049. As a neutral and trusted community member, he will be leading things forward with SHA-3. He can keep everything well-organized. (4:12)
    • Bob's action: Bob has offered an update about how things are done. Technically speaking, the guest client may not be 100% ready for this mining. Rushing into this is not ideal, even though Alex has proposed a block number for the switch. (4:52)
    • Bob's thought** :**
      • Bob believed it's essential to think properly about the transition and how to best avoid a chain split before putting this forward. Hard fork is contentious because the network hash rate is split by a new algorithm. A chain split is likely to spread further if the thing is not approached correctly. It needs to be done in a methodical long-term strategy. (6:00)
      • Bob agreed that ECIP-1049 is not necessarily the best approach to avoid a flood of extra GPUs. He also mentioned transition switching from one algorithm to another is a tricky issue since it hasn't been implemented or tested. We have not been well-prepared yet and we need the results provided by developers. (7:40)

  • Breaking: DAO Hacker Unmasked

    • In Forbes, the DAO hacker is ETC's founding father, to some extent. This was the announcement dropped by Laura shin who has a new book, _The Cryptopians: Idealism, Greed, Lies, and the Making of the First Big Cryptocurrency Craze_corroborated by Alex Anderson. Alex Anderson is a well-respected member of the theorem community. We might consider inviting some of the experts to join our conversation. (25:33)
    • The funds will most likely be returned to the DAO token holders who are the rightful owners of the ETC. Ironically, the identifying of this DAO hacker further proved that the hard fork on Ethereum was completely unnecessary, because even without the incentive of all the funds, he still got caught. Therefore, if only this had been without hard fork, it's almost guaranteed that it would have been caught within a couple years. And that means the hard folk were entirely unnecessary. Code prevails. A different article on Bloomberg unmasked a different guy who is not fully confirmed yet. (28:28)
    • There are many cases where bad guys can be caught on the social layer and not by reorganizing the chain manually. If the hacker was caught moving the money, it means that the hacker just moved a little amount of money, and he was caught because of that. The vast majority is still staying in the account. (29:50)

  • Website Launch & Concepts

    • Code is law:
      • That code is law is a thing that only exists in the contract layer and off chain, traditional law exists. The idea of code is law is not to necessarily get rid of existing laws. It's just an additional jurisdiction, a virtual jurisdiction that can exist over above the geographical legal jurisdictions that exist today. This argument can be seen in the new website. There is a whole new section wise classic, which covers bunch of topics. This section is an introduction to the Significance of Ethereum Classic. Block chains are only valuable when one has code is law.
      • The genesis section discusses in depth about what happened during the DAO and wraps things up with some philosophical problems that Ethereum may meet now. A block train should be immutability and unstoppability. In fact, the Ethereum slogan was built on stoppable applications. But having stopped one of the first applications that got big, its past actions contradict its purported value proposition. So Ethereum Classic is there to fill a void. But to do this, Ethereum Classic needs to maintain this idea of decentralism or decentralization maximums. Decentralization is achieved as much as possible in all layers of the social, political, technological stack. That means making sure both the organizational structure as well as the protocol itself is decentralized. So that means one can't have a foundation. Ethereum Classic doesn't just like bitcoin.
      • By not having those centralized points of failure, it can survive long term, because basically, if the project relies on a foundation, the project can only exist if that foundation does. This philosophy can basically be summarized with the idea of F equals BTC equals ETC. Ethereum Classic combines the philosophy of bitcoin and the technology of Ethereum. And two of the main examples of this are the sound mandatory policy of bitcoin applied to Ethereum in the fixed emission curve the theorem classic has such that there is no chance of runaway inflation, especially in the case of proof of state transitions. (35:08)
    • Internationalization:
      • Since the new website is released, the next step will be focused on internationalization. Therefore, we're going to be trying to get all of the content translated into as many different languages as possible. We are targeting the most spoken languages first like Chinese and Spanish. We will be using a third-party translation service called Crowdin which makes translation easier. We're also hoping to be encouraging contributions in the form of tutorial videos and blog posts which will be easier for third parties to add their YouTube videos and new applications. (36:48)
      • In the future, if there's a pool available, we could potentially create a lottery system or reward a certain amount of ETC every month to anyone that contributes.ETC is philosophically much more aligned with Bitcoin. (37:50)

  • Open Discussion. 45:33

    • The hybrid** system:** The topic about the hybrid system is worthy of wider discussion. Regardless of what happens, even if we do move to SHA-3, there might be in the future where SHA-4 is needed. (46:27)
    • ECIP-1096: In August of 2020, there were 51% attacks on ETC and the person who wrote ECIP-1096 from RSK came to Ethereum Classic to propose two things. One was to merge mining with Bitcoin. Another was to eliminate independent mining and use the Bitcoin miners to produce the blocks for ETC so the Bitcoin miners would produce the blocks for Bitcoin. This means to use the same hashing power of Bitcoin, but to also produce blocks for ETC that would eliminate 100% of the miner base that is dedicated to ETC. The blocks of the network RSK are also produced by the Bitcoin miner base. Therefore, it merged mining and was rejected at the time in terms of debate. Hence, there's no plans to merge mining in Ethereum Classic. (49:50)
    • Explanation for compatibility: Ethereum is going to be largely backwards compatible so that all the contracts that have deployed already will still operate. The Ethereum foundation chain is likely to remain compatible with Ethereum Classic. But it's difficult to tell what they're planning in the long term and whether they're going to break that compatibility or require some weird new contract system. Hence there's no guarantee that compatibility will be maintained indefinitely. But for the foreseeable future, it will remain. (52:00)
    • EVM standard: A virtual machine standard is called EVM standard Ethereum. There's a group of block chains that all use the EVM standard. In Ethereum Classic, there's other proof of block chains that use the EVM standard. Therefore, all that group of block chains should continue to use the EVM standard, because when one is within the standard, one must follow the lead of the standard. It's going to be unlikely that ETC Ethereum and the other EVM chains are not going to be compatible. This is because the normal behavior of these technological systems is networking. In terms of likelihood, ETC today is 100% compatible in the sense that it is the identical technology In Ethereum. It is going to continue to be compatible because any future changes of the EVM standard is very likely going to be followed by all EVM chains. (53:25)
    • Up codes: The recent mystique hard fork is convincing, because one of the up codes added to London was not integrated. So, any contract that uses that up code is currently not able to be deployed on ETC. Therefore, EVM is essential for ETC to implement as soon as possible not just for compatibility, but also making future hard folks easier. It's also one of the completely non-contentious, only upside kind of hard forks that the whole community can get around. (54:45) They're going to be some underlying technological differences in proof of work and monetary policy of the model. Since Ethereum already changed, some up-codes may be not compatible. So that makes them different. For a developer who wants code is not going to be the same on one chain and another. (55:31)

Action Points

  1. Improvement of the consensual list with more diversified options.
  2. Collection of suggestions on the consensual list for SHA-3.
  3. Creation of Discord Bot/Implementation of voting system on GitHubthat allows drawing pollsfor the long-term debate.
  4. Invitation of Laura shin/Absa???to shed light on the issue.
  5. Collection of feedback and review to make a better website.
  6. Preparation of a series of videos to explain each section.
  7. Arrangement of a physical conference for ETC this year or next year (Visas/entry rules/travel restrictions).
  8. Arrangement of an online hackathon.
  9. Donald will present a two-hour course about block chainnext week but not on Tuesday.