Camera Recommendation with Good Night Time / Low Light Performance for Wild Life & Rodents Monitoring

[luckylinux]

Is there a good, relatively cheap camera (USB, WiFi, Ethernet) with Good Night Time Performance ?

I have to monitor activity near the House at Night because some Rodents are finding their way in.

I see many "Trail Cameras" or "Wild Life Cameras" on Amazon for like 50-100 EUR/USD, but it's only microSD and see afterwards what you recorded.

Thank you :)

[drejkus]

I use Hikvision cameras - this HiLook 2MP (which I believe is actually this one - there is this problem with OEM product names, so it might be called differently in your location) It works great on house where there is a streetlamp ca 40m away. Cheap, solid, no IR though, only white lamp if needed (which I don't use). Snapshot included - the scene is actually pretty dark in person, you would not see the cat with naked eye. I used it to detect cats on the window sill and ring a bell to let them in. 2.8mm lens.

More expensive one which I use is this one, 4MP

[luckylinux]

Uhm ... I'm kinda negatively biased on Hikvision since I installed my 4 Cameras (Hikvision DS-2CD2386G2-ISU / SL).

From time to time they would drop out of the network and be unreachable. Tried using Static IP (instead of DHCP). IIRC disabling UPNP. Issues with multicast etc. No matter what I try for some hours one camera would blink LED on the switch, then drop out for a few seconds, then try again until finally (maybe) it started working. Or I just had to reboot the switch. Upgrading Firmware did non help. Still cannot figure out if it's some overheating of one camera standing in the sun or just some random networking stuff that they do.

Your second link on Aliexpress looks interesting. Cannot believe it's original though. Buying locally would be more than double the price ⭕ .

[luckylinux]

But for the price of the 4MP might be worth a shot to see how they do. I don't really expect them to be original Hikvision though ...

[luckylinux]

I just bought one (4MP). Thank you for the recommendation @drejkus.

[drejkus]

You're welcome. I don't have any comparison, but it looks legit to me. Also both models have been rock solid for me (using PoE). Hope it would be the same for you.

[luckylinux]

Yeah not sure what the issue with my current model is. For a state of the art 300$ for sure it's a bit lousy. Hope this one will be better :).

[luckylinux]

@drejkus : Did you have issues updating to the latest firmware ? I wasn't aware of this Chinese / USA / International Serial Number thing which prevents (or bricks or reverts language on update) updating the Camera to the latest Available Firmware version.

[blakeblackshear]

Just so you know, "mouse" in the COCO dataset is a computer mouse, not a rodent.

[luckylinux]

I think I also read that in another GitHub issue.

Thanks for the reminder.

However I had a rat hunter come by, because I wasn't sure if it was a mouse/mice or rat.

It's several RATs. So that takes care of that problem of recognition I guess ....

[cliff-rosenberg]

There are many cameras that can perform well in low light conditions, but they all have one thing in common: large sized sensors for the number of pixels they have. Sensitivity comes into play, but there's no way a 8MP 1/2.7" sensor will equal the low light performance of a 2MP 1/2.7" sensor will get, all other things being equal. Also, cameras that are capable of having a wider aperture setting (f1.0 versus f1.6) will collect more light at the lower settings. Daytime performance isn't so reliant on these characteristics.

For some reason, I have seen very few low cost 5MP cameras that have large sensors. Not sure why that is the case, perhaps no image sensor manufacturers have much interest in making those. I have a few HIKvision and Dahua cameras that are "pro", and one Annke that is obviously not. They all have fairly large sensors (4MP, 1/1.8"), but the Annke one seems to have a good quality sensor in it based on low light performance, despite being quite a lot less cost than the pro cameras. The Annke has a plastic housing, and the "pro" cameras all have an aluminum die-cast one. Having infrared lighting can help a camera that has a nighttime black and white setting (this needs to have a switchable infrared filter, many cameras marketed as "Nighttime Color" do not have this feature).

This is a helpful graph I found uploaded to "ipcamtalk.com"-

[cliff-rosenberg]

maybe for local-only access without internet connectivity

I use my internet router ruleset to block all the camera IP addresses from accessing the outside internet at all. I have a local machine running Network Time Protocol, as well as a DNS filtering unit that provides local DNS services to my inside network devices. This will mostly keep any "bad actors" from giving big security holes in things. You can't reasonably account for everything, but this is my personal comfort level of security. If you're highly focused on network security, a good thing to look at is the USA's "NDAA" conformity of the camera in question. It's not an absolute guarantee of security, but it at least looks at where the device components were made.

[luckylinux]

No. Actually for lack of time and energy (couldn't even figure out how to setup Home Assistant with Docker initially ... well still didn't manage NodeRed, with Podman though, different story) I am just using the HikVision APP and send an email whenever something happens.

Not the best I know but .... that's what I have for now. They have internet access but are separate from the "Main" LAN (and hopefully soon I plan to use VLANs) though.

In the future I plan on LAN only. But first I have a RAT issue to get rid of :/

[luckylinux]

OK I inquired the seller for the 4MP Hikvision order I placed recently.

He stats that the Camera is "International Version" and that the Serial Number does NOT contain "CH".

Furthermore the shop claims to be an Official Licensed Hikvision store.

I know sellers can also lie and scam, but that would be valid ground for an Aliexpress refund, in case the device refuses to upgrade using the International Firmware.

[cliff-rosenberg]

The "International Version" cameras seem to be OK, they will have a 'WR' designation in the serial number just like a US camera will. The "US Versions" also have an Underwriters Laboratories certification sticker on them. The China versions will have a 'CH' designation in the serial number. There are not a lot of authorized Hikvision sellers online that I am familiar with. One that is popular here in the US is B&H Photo and Video in New York. They sell at a discounted price, but not at the low levels that unauthorized sellers (and AliExpress) do. I hope your seller is an honest one, that would be good if you ever need assistance with a warranty issue later!

[luckylinux]

Well if the camera stops working after a while it's probably cheaper to just get a new one. Shipping to China is very expensive...

Anyway even "reputable" local sellers that sell here in Europe at twice the price... If the defect shows up after 6 months (in Germany I believe 12 months), even if you are under warranty, the burden of the proof lies with you, NOT the seller.

So I don't have big hopes that if one of my current hikvision cameras break, the seller would honor the warranty anyway.

But yeah, it would be nice if they could honor the warranty somehow on AliExpress as well...

[luckylinux]

@drejkus , @cliff-rosenberg :

I am resuscitating this old topic since I think I'll need to setup a few extra Cameras around the House (since the existing VERY-EXPENSIVE 4K Hikvision ones keep dropping out of the LAN !!! I don't know if I need to put each of them into a separate Subnet and isolate them from each other or what, it's really a Pain in the Neck 😞).

I am looking at (same Aliexpress Store):

• DS-2CD2347G2H-LISU/SL (160$)
• DS-2CD2347G2-LSU-SL (137$)
• DS-2CD1347G2H-LIUF (97$)
• DS-2CD1347G2-LUF (90$)

The DS-2CD1347G2H-LIUF and DS-2CD2347G2H-LISU/SL seems to be a Hybrid Model which can (will ?) Switch to IR Light if the User wishes to do so (or it will use an extra White Light instead).

The DS-2CD2347G2-LSU-SL is the one closest to the existing ones in Terms of Features (Audio Alarm, White Strobe), but that's a PITA in its own Way since I cannot disarm them without considerable Effort ...

I'm also quite confused by the Product Numbering Scheme ... What is the main Difference between 1347 and 2347 ? The 2 seems to indicate "Entry Level", so how much below is 1 then ?

I could decode the followingv - hoping they are correct:

• F model: on-board storage up to 512 GB (SD card slot) - Depending on Camera
• U model: built-in microphone for real-time audio security
• SL model: Strobe Light
• H: Hybrid (Visible Light + Infrared)
• I: Infrared Support

Any recommendation between these ? Thanks 👍

[cliff-rosenberg]

You are correct, the DS-2CD2347G2H-LISU/SL is indeed a 4MP camera. My Google results must have led me to the wrong spec sheet on the Hikvision website, sorry about that! Even at 4MP, it still has an impressive 1/1.8" imager and great low-light specs. The additional option of having both white light and infrared makes this a better choice if the cost difference is that little. The DS-2CD2347G2-LSU/SL has only white light illumination.

I have a Mikrotik switch as well installed in a media center for extra ports there without running all separate Ethernet cables to each device from my main Ruckus switch. It has a 10gb port for a fiber link back to the main Ruckus switch, and has worked great for this. I looked at having a Mikrotik as my main switch, but since I already had a Ruckus R650 wi-fi access point I bought a used Ruckus/Brocade ICX 7250-48P at a great bargain. I have ipv6 off on all my cameras. I also run local DNS and NTP so my firewall (OPNsense) blocks all traffic from my cameras to the outside internet. I have not VLAN'd them off yet, though. I live in the southwest region of the USA, which has extremely warm summer months and a lot of direct sunlight. My cameras are installed under the eaves of my home, so they get less direct sunlight than being out on a pole mount or such. I think this is a rough environment for cameras to live a long and healthy life. I have worked on some of my cameras in the middle of the day, and the housing is indeed quite warm to the touch. This may be part of what is the issue with "offline" behavior, as you have noted. Our average high temp here is 108F or about 42C in the middle Summer months. Probably not comfortable for outside electronics!

Regarding Frigate, do you run it using a Docker container? I had to set my Frigate Docker container to use the "Host" networking mode to avoid Docker networking/port issues. I also use a PCIe Coral device, which had a lot of extra "hoops to jump through" to get working, as well as mapping the Intel integrated GPU to the container for video transcoding. I am a basic Docker user, I have read a lot of info/how-tos on it but have barely scratched the surface of its features. I run Dahua and Hikvision cameras, the Hikvision cameras I have set up in Frigate to use two channels, a high (native) resolution for recording, and a low resolution second channel I use for the detection feature. A 4MP camera should be native at 2688x1520 resolution, while the second channel can be set to 640x480 for detection. The second Hikvision stream is mapped by using "/ISAPI/Streaming/channels/102/?transportmode=unicast" in the URL, the address part is exactly the same as the main channel. Also, using the port number for RTSP ":554" may be helpful in Frigate. My line for my main channel of a Hikvision camera looks like this under the go2rtc part in the Frigate configuration file: "rtsp://{FRIGATE_RTSP_USER}:{FRIGATE_RTSP_PASSWORD}@192.168.x.x:554/ISAPI/Streaming/channels/101/?transportmode=unicast", and the secondary channel map just passes "102" in the palce of the "101" in that URL. I have masked the address to post here, of course "x.x" is not a proper IP address. I don't use go2rtc to re-map my detection channels, I was trying to avoid using excess CPU cycles as my Frigate machine runs a lot of other services under Docker and has modest specs overall. Using the secondary camera channel helped in that regard, but puts a bigger load on the camera to serve the extra stream. This may be troublesome if the camera is already having issues. Just something to note.

I noticed that v0.14 has added a lot of other features since I installed at v0.12. I need to update my configuration file to start using some of those at some point! Best wishes on getting your cameras sorted and hopefully getting Frigate to be more cooperative with your needs. I use another piece of software called "Scrypted" to serve my camera feeds to Apple's HomeKit, which has a higher "Wife Acceptance Score" than my Home Assistant setup ever did. I use Home Assistant with HomeKit to do my home automation, it's a very modest setup with just a few dimmers and switches controlled by Z-Wave, but works very solid and has no issues with day-to-day use. I feel it's a lot of value for some "sweat equity" invested in the setup of freely available software.

[luckylinux]

Thank you for your Answer !

Then I guess I'll buy some DS-2CD2347G2H-LISU/SL Cameras to have a "Backup" plan in case White Light alone doesn't work well enough on its own, trhanks 😉.

My Camera Facing South is also covered by the "edge" of the (Sloped) Roof, like approx. 50cm sticking out. But when the Sun is Direct over it, it won't Help I believe 😞. And there's not much I can do, there aren't many other suitable Places.

And it's the West Camera that is offline for like a Month now ... It still sounds the Preconfigured Alarm, so PoE and the internal Motion Detection works, it just doesn't seem like it wants to stay on the Network. That's why I mean that in order to get that working, I need to basically unplug everything else. I also tried updating Firmware Versions, that didn't help unfortunately 😞.

About the Coral Issue I created another Discussion about it -> #13489

I also started to use the secondary Stream for Motion Detection now, although the URL Format is different from what you said (maybe there are 2 Variations Hikvision uses ??) - Streaming/Channels/102 instead of Streaming/Channels/101 basically:

go2rtc:
  srtp:
    username: frigate
    password: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
  streams:
    garage:
      - rtsp://frigate:[email protected]:554/Streaming/Channels/101
cameras:
  InsideGarage:
    ffmpeg:
      inputs:
        - path: rtsp://127.0.0.1:8554/garage
          input_args: preset-rtsp-restream
          roles:
            - record
        - path: rtsp://frigate:[email protected]:554/Streaming/Channels/102
          roles:
            - detect

It's driving me Nuts. I have more than 1 Year of Experience with Podman Containers, although I never used PCIe/USB Pass-through, so that's definitively a First. But either the Coral Driver, the Coral Libraries, the ARM64/AARCH64 CPU, the Kernel or something else is definitively broken ...

[cliff-rosenberg]

I think you're right about the Hikvision URL being different, my Hik cameras are from 2018 so I'm sure recent firmware upgrades have changed something. Glad you are getting the second streams working, I think that helps Frigate inferencing run better without host transcoding. I also think you're right about the Coral drivers, I run my host on Ubuntu Linux, which is very similar to Debian. It is an "amd_64" host, so I don't have experience with running it on ARM, unfortunately. If you use a USB Coral that seems to have a lot more examples of pass-through setups, at least in Docker. I'd think that Podman and LXC containers are more similar than either of them compare to Docker.

There are many mentions of the Gasket drivers being an issue with the mainline Coral "EdgeTPU" installs on the v6 and above kernels, due to Google not maintaining their Coral repo. This thread discusses it here: https://github.com/google-coral/edgetpu/issues/822)
I simply "froze" my kernel version to 5.15.x in "apt" on Ubuntu 22.04, so upgrades won't break my Coral drivers. The old hardware my NVR runs on it fine with that kernel version, all is working as expected. It's probably a bad hack but works for my setup. I am going to experiment with using an older Nvidia "Tesla" GPU accelerator to do both video transcoding for my media server and replace the Coral TPU with TensorRT (yoloV4) models running on that same GPU in my new host machine when I get that running. I'll probably lose even more of the hair I have left getting all that to work together!

[luckylinux]

That might be what I will do in a KVM Virtual Machine on an AMD64 Host Actually ... I saw however that many Users could get at least Kernel 6.1 working, so I'm a bit surprised you needed to hold on to 5.15.x. I'd probably just use Debian Bookworm Stock Kernel 6.1 and try with that first at least ...

Using an Nvidia "Tesla" GPU sounds fun, but isn't that a real Power Hog ? Even Idle Power Consumption will be quite High IMHO ... Otherwise I'd probably give it a Try as well 😄.

I also don't have many Hair left so I guess that will make 2 of us then 🤣.

[luckylinux]

@cliff-rosenberg: Just cross-checking before pulling the trigger and buying the DS-2CD2347G2H-LISU/SL.

The DS-2CD2387G2H-LISU/SL is only like 20$ more than the DS-2CD2347G2H-LISU/SL at 180$ but it upgrades the Camera to 8MP (instead of the 4MP of the DS-2CD2347G2H-LISU/SL at 160$).

Would that be better or then you think the Image Quality / Light Sensitivity gets worse due to the increase of Resolution ?

EDIT 1: Actually I found that the Original Seller does NOT sell the Camera in Black.

Here seems like the Black Version is also Available (200$, 20$ more than the other Seller) -> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006712670241.html

EDIT 2: Maybe the White Cameras might actually be better (could get dirty from Rain though) ... https://www.getscw.com/support/faq/black-cameras

EDIT 3: Could it be that the Fact that my Camera keep overheating be due to the Choice of Color (they are currently all Black) ? Especially the Camera facing South, that's quite a tricky one during Summer Days. I guess in the Future I'll have to buy White Cameras, even though they don't look as good on a Dark Red Brick Wall 😞