Payment Method Maintainer #38
Comments
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Closing as dropped. We do very much need payment method experts, but it probably doesn't make sense to try to model this as a dedicated role under the DAO. Typically, people are an expert with one payment method or another, and what's needed is documentation for them about how to provide the team with all the necessary information about adding a payment method, e.g. details about chargeback risk, daily/weekly/monthly limits, etc. |
See closing comment in #38 for details.
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On second thought, I am re-opening this issue. We do very much need someone to take responsibility for our payment methods in Bisq, especially as regards adding new ones and the requirements for doing so. In the recent request by @seljuck to add support for Popmoney as a payment method (bisq-network/bisq#1273), @ManfredKarrer posted the following (now outdated) docs that we used to vet various payment methods:
If you are interested in taking ownership of these materials, and generally improving the way we manage payment methods in Bisq, let us know! If you are a developer, this role can also include actually maintaining the code around payment methods as well, but that is not a requirement. |
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Per the Slack conversation at https://bisq.slack.com/archives/C6YNLRYS2/p1523352284000066, @alfsbs would like to take on this role, and I've assigned him in a provisional fashion here. The next steps will be putting together a more detailed description of the role, its tasks, and goals, and also putting together an up-to-date, canonical "howto" doc on adding payment methods to Bisq. Welcome, @alfsbs, and please feel free to discuss all of this, to share your progress, etc in the |
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Proposed description: This role is responsible for the management of payment methods addition and maintenance Tasks
Goals
KPIs
Slack: #payment-methods |
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Thanks, @alfsbs. I've transcribed your proposed description into the actual description at top, and made a few small style and text changes along the way. If it looks good to you, then onward! |
2018.04 reportGeneral moderation of the #payment-methods slack channel and collaboration in bisq's community forum related issues. Participation in growth calls in relation to payment methods maintainer. Investigation of the following payment methods
Other in process
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Thanks, @alfsbs. A couple minor nits:
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2018.05 ReportGeneral: Moderation of the #payment-methods slack channel and collaboration in bisq's community forum related issues. Participation in growth calls in relation to payment methods maintainer and growth experiments. Bisq Docs (Payment Methods Knowledge Base)
Payment Methods Management
Monthly reporting
Trades' amountMost total volume for the 0.6-0.7 interval, probably due to being the lowest amount with a small % fee
Below a graph showing total % fees for different BTC amounts
Trades' volume and frequency / Payment MethodSEPA transactions dominating in both volume and frequency, Altcoins with the highest mean amount
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Note, @alfsbs and all that I've just removed the |
2018.06 ReportGeneral: Moderation of the #payment-methods slack channel and collaboration in bisq's community forum related issues. Participation in growth calls in relation to payment methods maintainer and growth experiments. Payment Methods Management
Monthly reporting
Trades' amount volume and frequency
Trades' volume and frequency / Payment Method
Trades' volume and frequency / Currency Pair
BTC_EUR trades' volume and frequency / Payment Method
BTC_EUR trades' volume and frequency / Payment Method
Chargeback issues
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LocalBitcoins BenchmarkCountries Total / Payment methods in top 6 countries (missing)Calculated by offers in LocalBitcoins
Payment methods / country (missing)
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2018.07 ReportGeneral: Moderation of the #payment-methods slack channel and collaboration in bisq's community forum related issues. Participation in growth calls in relation to payment methods maintainer and growth experiments. Payment Methods Management Monthly reporting
Trades' amount Trades' volume and frequency / Payment Method
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Welcome, @pazza83! Proactive ownership of this role has been long needed in the project and it's been great to see your engagement over the last weeks. Keep going! |
Cycle 20 ReportThis is my second cycle as Payment Method Maintainer. Key learning pointsKey learning points from this cycle have been:
Completed tasks
Tasks in progress
Future tasks
Comments about recently added payment methodsPayID is still yet to be adopted. There have been a handful of trades but I think more liquidity is needed in the AUD/BTC for this to really take off. I am pleased with how both Amazon eGift cards and TransferWise have started off. Amazon has a strong use case for privacy and it is good to be able to fund a BTC purchase via credit / debit card. I think TransferWise will do really well. I can see it competing, outperforming Revolut once it is adopted and added to US markets. Other commentsI am enjoying getting stuck in to this role. I think there is lots of potential to increase trade volume by increasing accessibility to Bisq to users. I am still getting to grips with everything and trying to juggle lots of tasks that need doing. I am looking forward to when I have organized myself more and have a plan of what to do. I think it will be 2/3 cycles before I have reviewed all the payments methods proposed and have a plan in place to action for 2021. I am keen to get started and excited about what can be achieved for the upcming year. |
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Thanks a lot @pazza83 for this excellent report and your work in that area! |
Cycle 21 ReportThis is my third cycle as Payment Method Maintainer. I think I am beginning to emerge from the organization / getting to grips with everything stage, and am starting to see a little more progress now in terms of things being delivered. I am enjoying the role and can see a more clear path of what can be achieved in the coming year. Keybase #buy-bitcoinFollowing my proposal to Use Keybase to increase accessibility to Bisq for new traders with no funds for security deposit, trading and mining fees I have started developing this channel. I have completed two trades as a result of messages there. It is still very much a work in progress and I have started to draft a Wiki to help set out rules: https://bisq.wiki/Keybase-Buy_Bitcoin The fact these trades rely on trust makes me want to ensure the documentation is on-point to ensure traders are both aware of the risks, and understand how to vet a potential trade partner. I have not worked out how to pin a message in a Keybase channel so if anyone knows how to achieve this please let me know. TransferWise problems and removing Trade IDsUnfortunately I know of at least 8 Bisq users that had their TransferWise closed over the course of a few days. It is speculated that TransferWise became aware of Bisq usage either through social media or a user contacting TW support. It is assumed they were then able to link the Bisq trades by the associated trade IDs. This is a real shame as TransferWise started off so well. I think it also demonstrates how more careful consideration needs to be given to trades that start and end with the same payment provider (eg Revolut, Uphold, PopMoney, N26 etc). To address the Trade ID concerns the discussion that was restarted last month about Add option to make trade 'reason' less obvious became more important and ultimately it was decided that is would be best to remove Trade IDs altogether. Hopefully this will help TransferWise become a viable payment method again, and also reduce the chance of a mass closure of accounts occurring on TW or other platforms. CommunityI have been active on Keybase, Reddit and Github with regards discussion of all thing payment method related. Liaising with DevsI have worked with a number of Devs to deliver the addition of new payment methods: And changes to existing ones where needed: All the above, apart from SWIFT, will have been completed and will be delivered with the next release. Liaising with MediatorsNo real issues. Many thaks to @Bisq-knight who made me aware of the Amazon eGift Card issue. Promote new payment methods on various channelsI held off on this due to the TransferWise issue. I am considering how best to market new payment methods. It seems TransferWise made a comment on one of the Twitter posts about cryptocurrencies being against the terms of service. I think making users aware of new methods, but not the payment provider, would be good. Maybe a news/updates section could be added to the new UI bisq-network/projects#47 I assume a basic Tor html browser / reader would be possible? I need to consider how best to market payment methods. It is a work in progress. I have not really got started yet. Prioritization of payment methods for additionI am working on this at present. First job was to produce a list of My inital plan was to score the payment methods based on how closed they meet the criteria to be added. Now I am leaning more to batching payment methods per country / currency. This would make it easier to promote to new users and increase liquidity. I think this will be my preference. I know Colombian, Venezuelan and Brazilian users have been waiting for a long time for more access to their markets. I am keen to address their requirements. I also made a batch of proposals for some more EUR and USD options, as well as three new Indian payment method options. Develop a process for payment methods to be addedI am trying to stick to the processes I proposed for editing and adding new payment methods. It seems to be going well and I am hopeful I will meet the estimated timelines. bisq-network/growth#206 The text for the New payment method' GitHub issue has now been updated so is in keeping with my proposed requirements to consider when adding new payment methods. Current state of payment methods in numbers29 payment methods available to Bisq users. Find payment methods to support Bisq's growth.This month I proposed the following payment methods for addition: EUR - Goal to increase liquidity in existing popular markets
USD - Goal to increase liquidity in existing popular markets
INR - Goal to increase liquidity in less popular popular markets
I also received positive feedback from Reddit users on a post on r/BitcoinIndia I have also researched many more. Concentrating my efforts for now on multi-currency payment methods. Next month I will propose more. I understand that for some it might be frustrating to see multiple new payment methods being proposed when others are yet to be actioned. Fear not, there is a method to the process! I am keen to get everything that could be added onto GitHub for discussion before moving on to the next stage. This will also give users the time needed to comment on the proposals. It will be another month or so before this is complete. This way I will ensure that payment methods can be prioritized according to region . currency / user demand / feasibility etc. In the long run it will also allow me to cover more ground in less time and therefore result in more and better payment options for current and future Bisq users. WikiOne of my learning from last cycle was to get wikis online in preparation for new payment methods to be added. Therefore, I will try to stay ahead of the new Bisq releases/ This cycle I have completed a draft wiki for Cash by Mail - in preparation of it being added I have also started the wiki for using keybase buy-bitcoin Payment method volume/ KPIsI have not started to build this into my process yet. Future tasksThese are some of the other things I am yet to action:
Other commentsI feel like I have managed to get understanding of the role. It will likely be another cycle before I am fully on it. Apologies to everyone that have made proposals recently and are keen to see some action. I am keen to get everything added once I have taken stock of everything that needs to be done. I am positive the work being done in the first quarter of this year will make things a lot smoother for the rest of 2021. |
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Great update @pazza83, and great work! |
Cycle 22 ReportI have now pretty much completed making Github proposals for all the new payment methods proposed. What payment methods where considered for inclusion:All payment methods suggested by Bisq users for inclusion have been considered. Also considered for inclusion were the top 30 payment methods used by other P2P exchanges (Bisq had about half of them already in place so I considered the other half Bisq did not have implemented). The only payment methods yet to be considered are 4 Russian payment methods that other P2P exchanges in Russia were using. However I posted a Reddit thread here and it does not appear to me much, if any, Russian Bisq users. Therefore, I will discount these for the moment. What payment methods have been dismissed:The following payment methods have been dismissed for inclusion. I might reconsider them in 2022.
What payment are being considered for inclusion:The following payment methods are being considered for inclusion: Multi-Currency Payment MethodsIndian Payment MethodsAfrican Payment MethodsUS Payment MethodsEuropean Payment MethodsColombian Payment MethodsBrazilian Payment MethodsGift Voucher Payment MethodsIt would be great if anyone would like to give feedback on any of the above. Next steps for payment method inclusions:My plan for the next month or two is to get users feedback on all the above before prioritizing for addition. I think I will batch them in the order they are above. First priority will be multi-currency as this can benefit more people at once. After that I am keen to action the payment methods that can be used by people in India. With the recent regulatory complicating the purchase of cryptocurrencies in India it will be great to see how Bisq can help increase peoples access to fiat <> BTC gateways. Lessons learnt can be applied to new regions that become faced with similar challenges. I would like a decision on whether or not to add the above payment methods to be decided my end of May 2021 at the latest. I am not planning on considering anymore payment methods until all the above have been completed. My focus will now move to be on the proposed and existing payment methods. Update existing payment methods at the latest.I have liaised with devs to assist with the following updates to existing payment methods that have been included since the last cycle:
Other changes to existing payments methods are in progress. Issues can be seen here. Keybase #buy-bitcoinI am monitoring the new channel and next cycle I plan to push its use before looking to discuss how a burning BSQ, bonding BSQ, or other methods could give both revenue to the DAO and a safer user experience. Still to do for the channel are:
TransferWise problems and removing Trade IDsThis has now been actioned. I know it was a little controversial but from my experience it has been a much needed and positive improvement. I am not aware of any issues that have resulted from Trade IDs being removed from payment references. Liaising with MediatorsI have had three weekly calls as part of the support role which have helped me understand a little more about how the dispute process / system works for mediators. This has been really useful. Promote new payment methods on various channelsI am still to action this. WikiI am planning to create wikis for all existing payment methods. Hopefully this will make it easier for new users. Payment method volume/ KPIsI have not started to build this into my process yet. Future tasksThese are some of the other things I am yet to action:
Other commentsI feel like I have now organized what needs doing. Next job is to action it :) |
Cycle 23 ReportHaving completed the Github proposals for all the new payment methods proposed, I detailed the proposals in multiple places (GitHub, Reddit, Bisq Community Forum) to encourage discussion about what payment methods user would / would not like added. It would be great to get more feedback on these. If you would like to see any of the proposed payment added / not added please comment on the associated proposals. I plan to leave it another cycle before prioritizing payment methods for addition. The goal is for what new payment methods to add to be decided May 2021 at the latest. Update existing payment methodsI have liaised with devs to assist with the following updates to existing payment methods that have been included since the last cycle:
Other changes to existing payments methods are in progress. Issues can be seen here. Keybase #buy-bitcoinThis channel is performing well and regular transactions are taking place. With the security deposit minimum being reduced to 0.001 BTC there was talk about reducing the trade amount on the channel to 0.002 BTC. I will re-assess the buy-bitcoin Keybase limit (currently 0.007 BTC) . Although the amount of 0.002 BTC has been proposed, some sellers of 0.01 BTC or less are choosing to use a deposit over 15% this will need to be assessed at the end of a cycle to give things time to settle. I also made a pinned post for the channel to advise users of security measures and rules. I also produced a couple of graphics that could be used to promote the channel. However on discussion with @m52go it was unclear how much we should be promoting the channel off Bisq. Buy-Bitcoin Keybase graphics
Still to do for the channel are:
Discussion around reducing security deposit amountThe proposal to reduce minimum required security deposit has now been actioned with wide consensus. Discussion around reducing security deposit amountThe proposal to reduce maximum trade size for unsigned payment accounts has been more contentious, and the proposed change ended up being reverted. A way to address the security concerns of maximums in fiat terms rising with the price of BTC, whilst ensuring trading is still economical is needed. @sqrrm has started discussion on a new user account model . Liaising with MediatorsI have attended three weekly calls with mediators as part of my support role. These regular meeting are useful for my payment maintainer role also. Promote new payment methods on various channelsI have created a ranger of Twitter graphics for promoting payment methods on Bisq social media. There is more work to be done on this to decide how best to promote payment methods. Proposed UI improvementsTo make for a better experience for trader this cycle I proposed a number of UI changes:
Work committedThis is the issues I have been involved with that have been committed this cycle:
WikiI am planning to create wikis for all existing payment methods. Hopefully this will make it easier for new users. Payment method volume/ KPIsI have not started to build this into my process yet. Future tasksThese are some of the other things I am yet to action:
Other commentsIf there are any PopMoney users that would like to promote this payment method and help populate PopMoney signed accounts accross Bisq please get in touch with me. See comment here. I have agreed to project manage the new-user-onboarding and new user interface design this looks likely to proceed to it's first stage of developing the GUI for new user onboarding. I have suggested the following project for discussion: Add Monero to fiat trading pairs using BTC as the security deposit (multi-sig) thoughts on how this can be achieved are welcome as I see it as a good opportunity for Bisq. I have also started working on running the numbers on Bisq DAO revenues. Hopefully will have some figures for review/discussion next cycle. |
Cycle 24 ReportThis is my sixth payment method maintainer report so I have now been contributing to Bisq for six months. The below is the work I have completed this cycle. Developed two new processes for the addition of new payment methodsI put in place two processes to make it easy to decide if a payment method should be included, and to make it easy for devs to have all the information on hand when adding new payment methods. Payment method scoringFollowing a review of all the payment methods proposed for Bisq. I reviewed them all and scored the 16 criteria based on the this table using the following criteria. Essential: +1 The maximum score was 32/32. I scored all the payment methods using this scoring system. Scores ranges between 3-81%. Higher scores indicate payment methods that would be a good fit for Bisq. It just so happened that all payment methods proposed to be added scored above 60%, and all payment methods discounted scored below 60%. I think this scoring system can be used in future to give a good induction of if a payment method is a good fit for Bisq. It is simple to do and pretty objective. Proposed National Currency Payment Method TemplateTo make it easier for devs to know what is needed I came up with a Proposed National Currency Payment Method Template to show all the required information. I think graphically seeing what needs to be added will make things clearer and easier for devs to pick up the work. I have completed all the templates and next cycle I will complete the graphics required for all the proposed payment methods. Review of all proposed payment methods outstandingThis cycle I went though all the outstanding proposed payment methods and reviewed them for addition. There were 28 in total. 5 were discounted and the reasons for this were noted on the now closed GitHub issues: 23 were recommended for inclusion in Bisq and I complete a 'Proposed National Currency Payment Method Template' for each. The payment methods are as follows: Multi-Currency Payment MethodsIndian Payment MethodsUS Payment Methods
European Payment MethodsColombian Payment Methods
Brazilian Payment Methods
Gift Voucher Payment Methods
For anyone interested in following progress I am keeping all my project boards up-to-date. Communication of the recommended payment methods to be added to Bisq in 2021I shared the results of the above 23 recommendations on Reddit and a GitHub discussion Next steps for Recommended Payment Methods I am keen to get all the payment methods added to Bisq, wikis created, promoted, and troubleshooted before the end of 2021. I have proposed the following priorities:
I have requested @refund-agent2, @huey735, and @leo816 to let me know if they have any questions as to how any of the recommended payment methods will be mediated / arbitrated. I have also set the deadline for objections to be 31 May 2021. In the meantime it would be great if @ripcurlx can let me know what dev resources can be provided. I think it would be easier for me to work with one dev to get the above to completed quickly. I suggest something along the lines of the following would work well:
As you can see the first 6 months of the role have been primarily research based and can be completed independently. The next 6 months will transition to being project management and require me to work closer with a developer/s to achieve adding all the recommended payment methods by the end of 2021. SWIFT is also still to be added and with @wallclockbuilder, it would be useful for any feedback as to what information is required from myself beyond the completion of the Proposed National Currency Payment Method Template to make sure devs have everything they need.
Other work completed this cycleThe above represents the bulk of the work completed this cycle. Other work I have done includes the following:
Future tasksThese are some of the other things I am yet to action:
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Cycle 25 ReportI took a bit of time off this cycle from this role. So did not work as much as previous cycles. This is reflected in the compensation request for this role. New payment methodsI set the deadline for objections to be 31 May 2021 for the proposed 23 new payment methods. No objections were raised so I will get to work on them. I chatted with the devs on Keybase about what is needed for adding the payment methods. It was agreed that dev compensation for would be ~$200 for adding a new payment method and ~$100 for including any updates. There are a few payment methods that might require higher compensation as they are will require some more coding to work as proposed. @BtcContributor has already started on adding Capitual. This has highlighted the need for text to be defined for all payment methods. Previously @m52go has done this so have started discussions with him to create a template for this. I have also completed all the graphics required for all the proposed payment methods to make things easier for the devs to see how the new payment methods will look from a GUI perspective. Other work completed this cycleOther work I have done includes the following:
Future tasksThese are some of the other things I am yet to action:
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Cycle 28 ReportI have not requested any compensation for this role for a few cycles so thought it would be good to update where things are with payment methods. New payment methodsFor the proposed 23 new payment methods to be added currently: 1 has been added - Capitual Many thanks to @BtcContributor who added Capitual and to @jmacxx who added SWIFT, Paxum, Paysera and the Indian payment methods. @BtcContributor is no longer able to continue to work on payment methods. It would be great is @jmacxx is available to continue to add more? I am keen to complete these 16 payment methods before taking on new ones. There have been a few been suggested recently. But I am keen to work through the remaining roughly in the priorities proposed here: bisq-network/bisq#5462 I am still to complete documentation for the 6 new payment methods. I will complete this in cycle 29. The main barrier to adding new payment methods has been dev availability. Since @jmacxx has started working on them work has progressed quickly. Hopefully this can continue. Future tasksThese are some of the other things I am yet to action:
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Hi @pazza83 I'd like to propose adding Airtm (Airtm.com) as a payment method. Uphold is a popular USD payment method because Airtm started its life as an Uphold app. I think Airtm would be very popular. Many Airtm P2P agents use BTC to cycle minor currencies to their USD wallet. Localbitcoins is popular with Airtm's agent network. Airtm transfers are irrevocable. And Airtm has the most active P2P anything-to-dollar marketplace in the world. I believe it would significantly grow volume. Please feel free to ask me any questions about Airtm or anything else. |
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Hi @airparsa thanks for the suggestion. I will take a look into it. |
Cycle 31 ReportI have not requested any compensation for this role since cycle 25 (6 months ago). This was primary as a result of me not wanting to request any more compensation until the payment methods I had proposed went online. In the last 6 months I have worked with @jmacxx to get 22 of the proposed payment methods online. Most of the work was done by @jmacxx, the work I did for the inclusion of the payment methods consisted of:
Payment methods recently added to Bisq:The below payment methods have recently been added to Bisq. Multi-Currency Payment Methods5 new multi-currency payment methods have been added: Indian Payment Methods6 new payment methods have been added for users located in India. I have also managed to get a Bisq advert permanently located on the r/BitcoinInida subreddit Colombian Payment MethodsBrazilian Payment MethodsUS Payment Methods4 new payment methods have been added for users located in the US: European Payment Methods5 new payment methods have been added for users in European Countries:
Proposed Payment methods in progress
ReflectionsI am pleased that 22 payment methods have been added since I took on this role. I would now like to make sure as many of the new payment methods can become established on Bisq. They have all been chosen as they have the potential to be good for users to trade with. Next cycle I will create and publish a plan for moving forward with the payment role. Other things I would like to do:Improve the UI of the National Currency Account screen
Improve the UI of the Currency selector in options
I would really like to make all currencies enabled by default. Otherwise otherwise users in less common currency markets might mistakenly think Bisq is not available for them. If anyone has any comments or suggestions please feel free to share. |
January 2022 payment methods statisticsTotalsTotal trades: 4,892
Fiat
Altcoins
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February 2022 payment methods statisticsTotalsTotal trades: 3,755
Fiat
Altcoins
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Updated and added some payment method wikis:
Planning on doing wikis for the remaining pages so every payment method has a wiki page. Also going to run some reports in the new year to look at the success of payment methods. A quick look tells me the successful ones are; Amazon eGift Cards, Strike, Pix, TransferWise. The Indian payment methods however have less than a few trades between them :( |
Docs:
Team: @bisq-network/payment-method-maintainers
Primary owner: @pazza83
This role is responsible for the vetting new payment methods in Bisq, as well as maintaining existing ones and monitoring their performance. This is not a technical maintainer role, i.e. it is not about development, but rather about managing the process around payment methods.
Tasks
Goals
KPIs
Slack:
#payment-methodsIssues: https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq-desktop label->
in:payment-methodsThe text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: