diff --git a/sig-economics/meetings/023-2025-01-08.md b/sig-economics/meetings/023-2025-01-08.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..c0b62698 --- /dev/null +++ b/sig-economics/meetings/023-2025-01-08.md @@ -0,0 +1,355 @@ +# Akash Network - Economics Special Interest Group (SIG) - Meeting #23 + +## Agenda +- Recap of previous meetings and updates +- Transition between PIP01 and PIP02 +- Transparency in community pool spend reporting +- Open floor for community questions and suggestions +- Plans for 2025 and discussion of roadmap + +## Meeting Details +- Date: Wednesday, January 8, 2025 +- Time: 10:00 AM PT (Pacific Time) +- [Recording](https://kb66isbh5o5doxrcarv5wxlay3ik3aumfrso344igrpzvj5estqq.arweave.net/UH3kSCfrujdeIgRr211gxtCtgowsZO3ziDRfmqeklOE) +- [Transcript](#transcript) + +## Participants +- Scott Hewitson +- Andrew Gnatyuk +- B S +- Lucia Ijeoma +- Luna +- Rodri R + + +## Meeting Notes + +### Recap and Updates +- **PIP01 and PIP02 Transition**: + - PIP01 is nearly fully committed, with remaining funds allocated to ongoing provider contracts. + - PIP02 implementation is underway, focusing on scaling high-performance GPUs on the network. + - Dashboards for PIP01 and PIP02 are being updated to ensure transparency and tracking. + +- **Community Pool Spend Reporting**: + - Reporting for 2024 is complete, but earlier data from 2023 and before still needs to be added. + - A centralized repository tracks all proposals, their discussion links, and outcomes for full transparency. + +- **Live Proposals and Approvals**: + - Recent proposals include community activities and programs funding for insiders, vanguards, navigators, and alchemists. + - Discussions continue on the refinement of proposals for maximum alignment with the community's goals. + +### Community Questions and Suggestions +- **Credit Card Payments and USDC Integration**: + - Questions raised about the performance of credit card payments and the $10 free trial feature. + - Concerns over bot abuse in the free trial system are being addressed by the engineering team. + - Statistics on the impact of USDC credit card payments are requested, and updates will be shared in future meetings. + +- **2025 Roadmap**: + - General anticipation for the roadmap; priorities being finalized internally before public release. + - Discussion on potential new features like secret management, DNS, and AI integrations as part of the broader network vision. + +- **Community Engagement**: + - Importance of community contributions emphasized, with calls for ideas and proposals from members. + - Suggestions for leveraging the community pool for exchange listings and promotional activities discussed. + +### Key Discussion Points +- **Fraud Prevention**: + - Challenges with fraudulent activity on credit card payment systems. + - Collaboration with Stripe to identify and mitigate abuse while maintaining the integrity of the platform. + +- **Promotional Activities**: + - Debate on using community funds for exchange-based promotions, with examples from past initiatives. + - Suggestions for linking promotions to key events or milestones for greater impact. + +- **Community Program Growth**: + - Encouragement for individuals to apply to roles like insiders and vanguards as programs expand in 2025. + - Adam Wozny highlighted as the point of contact for onboarding new community members. + +### Closing Remarks +- Open invitation for community feedback, ideas, and suggestions to improve SIG Economics operations. +- Continued commitment to transparency and ensuring community funds are used effectively. +- Thanks extended to all attendees, with plans to address outstanding action items in the next meeting. + +## Action Items +- **Scott Hewitson**: + - Update dashboards for PIP02 and complete PIP01 reporting. + - Gather and share statistics on credit card payments and free trial performance. + - Follow up on 2025 roadmap updates and share timelines when available. + +- **Community Members**: + - Engage with SIG Economics to propose new ideas or provide feedback on current initiatives. + - Participate in community roles and programs, contributing to the network's growth. + - Review and discuss live proposals in SIG channels. + +- **Andrew Gnatyuk**: + - Explore opportunities for exchange promotions and consider drafting a proposal for community funding. + - Share insights on market trends and potential promotional strategies with SIG Economics. + +## **Transcript** + +Scott Hewitson: All right, GMGM everybody. It is the 8th of January, 2025, the first SIG economics call of the year. looks like we have a little lighter of a crowd. I know there's some other internal meetings going on where some other folks can't make it. I know Chang won't be here, but we wanted to have the call get things recorded. for any folks that are listening in later, thank you for listening if you do. I don't know how many people actually, listen later, but yeah, it's a good time. So, to, last call we talked majorly about provider incentives one and two. I looked and the notes are not up for that. + +Scott Hewitson: the video recording is up but those notes should come up soon in the transcript as well. but really that one I kind of was talking about PIPO one giving status updates for that and then as we transition to PIPO 2. So we've kind of committed most of PIPO one. there's a little bit left we could commit or return back. I'm still trying to figure out because there's a transition period of some of these providers that we're paying for. We'll switch over to PIP 2 funding. and then some will just stay on PIP one. it's just kind of, I'm matching what we've committed, what we spent to what we have in those buckets. So, it's just kind of a bucketing exercise. Nothing too crazy. + +Scott Hewitson: I'm trying to be pretty transparent with everything. I think last time I said I would update the community pool spend reporting page which I did. I'll drop a link here to that. So that is just basically any and I only did it for 2024. I need to take some time and go back before then. But basically it's a place where folks anyone who receives community pool funding can we track it out call it out a to the discussions a link to the actual proposal and then to any kind of reporting just for transparency you'll see some of them don't have links to it I know for provider incentives pilot 2 I'm actually working on that one right now but some of those other ones and + +Scott Hewitson: and some of them, overclock doesn't put up. So, it's up to anyone who wants to add any reporting. It's just the idea behind this is just to make sure that we are making good use of community pool funds and maintaining that high transparency. we overclock me whoever are putting forward things and we hope that others will too who take funds from the community pool. It's a pretty cool mechanism that we have that we can operate with in web 3. So yeah max transparency and we're good to go. What's going on Happy to have you. Thanks for jumping in early this year. + +Scott Hewitson: kind of lighter group. We're just kind of going through last call I was talking about the community pool spend reporting page has been updated working on no worries. provider incentives pilot one that dashboard is up to date and PIP2 dashboard should be coming out within the next couple days. I will say so PIPO one I think we're at a little over almost 5 million committed. That whole total request was about 10 million. there was a buffer put in for liquidation. so there's quite a bit of funds left on that and it'll all be linked in the dashboard so everyone can check that from the standpoint of props that are up there. + +Scott Hewitson: Let's see if there was a couple props since the last call. There was a log forward a couple that There was a marketing support team proposal and then logger for forwarding integration. I think the teams that are behind everyone's been talking in respective sig working groups to see how either refining those and making them better just or moving on to something else. There are two props we've got that live in the voting period should end in two days. the community activities and community programs. + + +### 00:05:00 + +Scott Hewitson: these are headed by Adam WNY or head of community activities are bounties hackathons I think small communityled events and then the programs cover the community member we've got the insiders vanguards there's the I think alchemists what else is there's the navigators so there's funding behind all these groups if insiders is the top of funnel as you go down and specialize. yeah, we're being able to pay folks for their contributions, which I think is awesome. those props will be up quarterly. and any addition or surplus or surplus or shortfalls will be accounted for in subsequent props. yeah, that's kind of it on a recap of last call. + +Scott Hewitson: highlighting PIP 01 and O2 because those are big dollar amounts spent from the community pool and then some live proposals. I won't go into discussions that there's quite a few things out there and I think there is a steering committee call later this week tomorrow. So, hopefully some folks, if there's any discussions or anything, the people will bring it up there as well. So, that was a quick little rundown. nothing too crazy. everyone's kind of getting back in the swing of things, so I'm guessing next month will be a little bit more exciting as things get going. Yeah, nice to have you here. + +Scott Hewitson: sorry if I'm butchering it, ucia. all these calls are open. Everyone's welcome to voice their opinions. we get actually a lot of great ideas out of these calls or if you would want to drop your notes in and Discord and Sik economics channel. I'm looking at everything. I'm open to everything. those that my whole thing is if you're providing value to the network. if you're doing things that progress the network and grow the network, then there's ways to get funding. And I'm always happy to help folks refine ideas, put up props, whatever it may be. So, open invite for anyone. yeah. So, at this time, I kind of did a recap. + +Scott Hewitson: want to open it up in case there's any questions, comments, concerns. It can be how we're doing these calls, any suggestions for these calls, or if you have any ideas as it relates to SIG economics and the community pool and any kind of u funding that drives us to that, goal of cloud parody at some point. Andrew, I know you got one for me. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yep. so yeah,… + +Scott Hewitson: There it is. Sorry for CES 2025. Okay. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: great question. do we have some stats on the CC payments? do we know how much USDC was spent when we launched the stuff? Is it For the C T125 was just like job, It's ongoing. So yeah, I'm still looking for money, to buy some stuff for work,… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: of course. No, no, I'm talking about this is the credit card payments with the USDC. + +Scott Hewitson: Credit card payments. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Maybe we have some stats when we launched it and… + +Scott Hewitson: So you want just kind of a general update and how that's running or Yeah. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: how it boosted the cash payments how many USDC was spent on the cash for example + +Scott Hewitson: So, it was built and It's currently live. We've been not me personally, but the team overclock has been dealing with some abuse issues, So, you got two things going with stable payments, right? You have free trials, and that's where anyone can spend $10 without anything. and then you've got the credit card payments. + +Scott Hewitson: We've seen a little bit of, fraud from credit cards. So, we're working with Stripe and, it's just like anytime you build something that can be gamed, people are going to try to game it. So, I'd say it's a little bit early to get some good hard numbers, other than the fact that it's working. The apparatus is working and it's flowing, which is good. So, I can see if we can pull something together for you, Andrew, though. because yeah, I'm curious as well, too. yeah,… + + +### 00:10:00 + +Scott Hewitson: Rodri, go ahead. is that I mean, I know I didn't really answer the best I could. I just don't really have the answer. Yeah. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yep. It's all good. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: All good. + +Rodri R: I just want to ask is the $10 trial going to last forever or… + +Rodri R: is there planned to end at some point? someone on Discord a few days or last week? + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah,… + +Scott Hewitson: I mean as of right now it's open. It's still running. I don't see I mean the idea is to give people a frictionless experience to just test it out. an ideal flow is they go on, they deploy something, they're like, " cool. It actually works. I didn't have to do anything. They like it, and then they can you convert them over by using a credit card." So, I think as much as we can, we'd like to keep the free trials open as long as we can. I know there's been some abuse on some bots and… + +Rodri R: Yeah, I heard some of that,… + +Scott Hewitson: miners and all that stuff. So, all What's that? + +Rodri R: Yeah,… + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah. Yeah. So I mean it's again anytime you build something that can be gamed people are going to try to gain it. so the team engineering is looking hard at solutions and figuring out what best about that. + +Rodri R: Yeah. No, I mean Yep. Just wanted to know… + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah. Yeah. + +Rodri R: if there was a end date for this. But yeah, I know other platforms have similar promos that been lasting for years. So guessing it can be here + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, I think the idea is to keep it there as long as it makes sense. Awesome. All right,… + +Scott Hewitson: Andrew, another question. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. So yeah,… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: another question. what's up with 2025 road map? is like some Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: 2025 road map. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: at So can we see it when can we see it? + +Scott Hewitson: I would love to see it myself. So, yeah, I know Greg's been working real hard on kind of distilling his thoughts and, where we're ing, direction we're heading. I have not seen any drafts or anything. I know it's being worked on. I know the goal is to get it out, ASAP. So, again, I can't help you with that question. + +Scott Hewitson: But as soon as I see it's usually once we see it internally it'll go out quick quickly thereafter. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: All good. + +Scott Hewitson: So Yeah. + +Luna: Yeah, I'd like to add that for technical stuff, we have some breadcrumbs here and there. They sometimes get dropped on some channels. So, we kind of have an idea of what the network might support in the future. I'm just not sure if it's 2025. So things like secret management, DNS, all that sort of stuff. I'm pretty sure it's part of the road map, but not sure if it's 2025. But some of these things you can already kind of expect to come in the future. + +Scott Hewitson: For Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, right, it's open- source software. + +Scott Hewitson: anything can be built onto it. and hopefully all of these things will be added as features at some point as we're go going towards cloud parody. We're going towards, what the giants have right now. Akos is still relatively new. So, it's cool to see that progress, but yeah, I think there's the problem is there's so many things that you could do and it's just, if there's a hundred things, it's and you can only do 15 of them in a year, then you got to prioritize. So, I think that's the exercise that's kind of going on right now. + +Scott Hewitson: and you match that to, which any customers or, people that want to use the network or yeah, it's just kind of a little bit driven by what people are wanting and needing and how things are shaking out. I know the AI agents thing is kind of picking up steam as a narrative. so we'll see if there's some stuff regarding that on the road map. I don't know but maybe I do but I really don't. So yeah as soon as hopefully and I can also ask Andrew and Luna for if we have any updated timelines on getting the road mapap out. + + +### 00:15:00 + +Scott Hewitson: If Chang was here, he'd probably have a better answer. so I'll take note to ask that and drop it in sig economics for the alpha. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, that's awesome. Thanks. Sig economics sharing alphas,… + +Scott Hewitson: I don't That's right. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: and insights. + +Scott Hewitson: That's Economics and all the inner working alpha, + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. s economics, we have everything, because we have money. + +Scott Hewitson: Yes. Yeah. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: All good. + +Scott Hewitson: I mean, yeah. what's it called? Everything touches money at some point. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. + +Scott Hewitson: So even if it's not really SIG economics, we can, kind of touch on it a little bit. yeah, Lucy, I saw so you filled out the insider application form. That's awesome. I know W has a ton of folks Adam WNY is reviewing a bunch of folks as always. + +Scott Hewitson: and I know, especially with these new community programs coming up, there's more funding for different things. So, I know he's trying to get as many folks as possible. so hopefully you can hear something soon. if you don't in maybe a week, if you want to ping me, and SIG economics, I can ping him and you can use me as your touch point if you'd Awesome. All right. Does anyone have any other questions or comments or concerns as it relates to SIG economics, the money, AKT, the token, the community pool, anything at all? Andrew + +Andrew Gnatyuk: So, yes. So, about the futures promo I've been writing about with Binance. So, we had a discussion that it's as all promos, we will have some volume at the time of the promo it goes right out and it will fall down eventually to probably some levels. We hope it going to be higher than it was when we started, right? But do we have some for example expectations of what we do want to see from previous use cases from Binance? Let's say for example if their promise has boosted the volume for the token for example on 50% and it ended to be still up by 10% by the end of the promo. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Is it still good for us? + +Scott Hewitson: I don't know if this was in Vanguards or in chat, but there was so Andrew brought up an opportunity. There's a Binance per competition where a couple grand towards it's a trading competition. So the idea is to boost volume on a certain exchange, certain pairs. and then the idea is you do it and then it brings enough people in to where afterwards there's still some sustained trading and volume. typically, we haven't overclock, funded things. we don't typically do these kinds of competitions unless it coincides with an event maybe I know when there was all those Korea exchanges that added stuff I think we added a small amount to just kind of boost those because it was at launch. + +Scott Hewitson: So I think timing it with another event that brings things in and for that it was like a new market so it's like all right get as many people in as you can while it's brand new. + +Scott Hewitson: We're on futures not on Binance spot. there's no saying a win when or… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah, it's really like spot futures probably. Yeah. Yeah,… + +Scott Hewitson: if we'll be on spot. It's just with some of these exchanges it's just tough. you can talk with them all you want and you can submit things and you don't hear anything. + +Scott Hewitson: That's just kind of… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: don't worry. + +Scott Hewitson: how it is. personally I think doing something like that if we got a spot listing or whatever doing something just kind of boost it it's a new spot to trade. I think that's a little bit more compelling than just all right pick a random week and let's do this. unless there is some kind of catalyst or some other kind of and it could be something with the road map or it could be something with some new features whatever. but I think we did do try to do something like that. I try to tie it in together with some other event that's already kind of driving some traffic and… + + +### 00:20:00 + +Scott Hewitson: then this just pours gas on it if that makes sense. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. and… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: in this regards for example some exchanges write to me from time to time, And I'm not talking about the one that just want to sell their marketing stuff But the one that writes hey we are planning to list Akash can we count on you to retweet it and maybe you have funds to boost this stuff with us as a promo do we negotiate with this people should we make a group or… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: something with new exchanges I'm not saying it's like top tier exchanges probably Indian exchanges or some Asia exchanges maybe top 100 coin market cap or something like that but do We complete all this stuff. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah, I'd say I mean so coming from overclock lab side we've got a million things that we're trying to get done and… + +Scott Hewitson: and sometimes I mean it's good you want the word to get out. You want distribution. You want eyes and mind space. sometimes if it's not targeted or it's not done in a certain way, it may be not a waste of funds, but just like a less good use of funds, if that makes sense. + +Scott Hewitson: we typically in overclock, if you look at on Twitter, Greg said we don't pay for listings. we don't do any of that stuff. I think that's helped our brand a little bit. because we're not, a paytoplay in everything. that being said, it might be something to look at and this is honestly, if you have high conviction in this, Andrew, and you can always put up a governance proposal and say it's for 10 20 grand, whatever the number is, and say, "Hey, I want to do these things." I think it would be better if it came not from overclock. + +Scott Hewitson: cool thing is that there's a community pool with, a bunch of money in it. so anyone could put up a prop for it. if you had some kind of strategic plan to do it across multiple different avenues, multiple different exchanges, or just hey, this is a pot of money to, we're going to throw a couple grand as opportunities come in, we'll throw a couple grand here, and just report on it all. + +Scott Hewitson: I know from overclock side it's not a priority but community right it could be and there's community funds so yeah I don't think I wouldn't say I don't want to like poo on it or say it's not a good idea which because I think it could help very well it's just not the priority of overclock labs at the moment but if you want to throw up a crop and + +Scott Hewitson: you're like, "Hey, I got 15 different exchange. I've got all these things and you coordinating this whole thing like that, that could be compelling and, you throw it up to vote and see what people think." That's why we got the community pool. so does that help a little bit? + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yep. Yeah. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. Yeah. That's At least I see the picture now, Very good. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah. Yeah. and if it's something cuz cuz you've got developers and people using AOS and then you've got more like the crypto moonboys and a little bit more speculators. That might be something that they all, support a ton and in marketing, why no marketing? Why know that? + +Scott Hewitson: So if you put up a prop and there's a lot of I mean the end of the day validators vote… + +Scott Hewitson: but people when you can override a vote with your tokens right it's default to whatever the val validator says but if you got a lot of support from token holders great send Yeah. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yep. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: People are writing about the marketing every time the token just goes down so it's like common stuff you can do whatever you want you can do lots of advertisement and marketing and everybody can talk to you but it doesn't matter if the token falls down so That's right. + + +### 00:25:00 + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's crypto. + +Scott Hewitson: everyone's happy when token is up and everyone's pissed when token's down. So, you kind of just gota, battle through that. and keep moving forward with utility. And, the reason I'm still here at working on a because I believe in… + +Scott Hewitson: what we're trying to do. there's a lot of projects out there that, just don't do anything. so it's cool to be a part of something that does something even if it's early, … + +Andrew Gnatyuk: So… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: where do you see a cash in 10 years? + +Scott Hewitson: 10 years a I see blocks still producing. That's what I see. + +Scott Hewitson: So yeah,… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: This is good. + +Scott Hewitson: who knows price-wise, though. Awesome. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Okay. Sure. + +Scott Hewitson: No, thanks for that. again, always always happy to chat through things like that. and if you get to a point you need some help on, putting up a prop or just putting some ideas together, ping me, or do it in SIG economics and anyone can see and help and dive in with you. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: We'll do. I'm just trying to get some stuff start from the exchanges as we talked to just know… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: how the things works And then we can discuss it. Sure. + +Scott Hewitson: Yeah. Love it. + +Scott Hewitson: I love All does anyone else have anything they want to bring up? Any other questions? concerns about how do we do these calls anything at nope. All right. + +Scott Hewitson: Not too short of a call, but I mean we still got some good stuff in. So, I'm gonna moving forward, so next up, I guess, things that I owe this group is I'm going to get PIP O2 up by the next call. so, that dashboard will be live. I'm going to keep updating PIP01. I don't know if I'll all the community pool spend that o. Again, I said 2024 is all in there. At some point when I have some time, I'll start putting in some stuff from 2023 just further back. But those dashboards live and you can find them in discussions and whatnot. But I think that's it from my end. any last comments,… + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. + +Scott Hewitson: concerns? That's right. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: And yeah, you owe us alpha on when the road map is going to be. + +Scott Hewitson: That's right. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. and… + +Scott Hewitson: That's all. + +Rodri R: Yeah. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: you and some info on the USDC CC payments. + +Scott Hewitson: Yes. So, I'll work on asking about some stats on C payments. anything that we can share on that because I think that's important on the road map timelines. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: Yeah. Yeah,… + +Scott Hewitson: So, I will drop that into city economics and tag you. + +Andrew Gnatyuk: that's awesome. That's nice. Thank you. + +Scott Hewitson: Thank you everyone as always for joining. I like running these calls. I like seeing talking with folks. It's fun part of my job. and looking forward to continue doing it and continue to progress in the network, continue to make things better. and again, anyone who wants to contribute or has ideas, at the very least, I'll listen to you, + +Rodri R: That's good. + +Scott Hewitson: So, yeah. Yeah. Well done. + +Rodri R: Awesome. Thank you. + +Scott Hewitson: All right. Thanks everybody. + +Rodri R: Looking forward. + +Luna: Thank you. Have a good one. + +Scott Hewitson: Have a good one. Take care. + +Rodri R: Three guys. + + +### Meeting ended after 00:29:06 👋 +