[!!!] Avoid WindowTop cracked version or you risk the future of this project [!!!]

[gileli121]

WindowTop became popular enough to get cracked very fast after each release.

I decided to reduce development efforts in this project because more people have started using the cracked version.
If this is not going to change, this project will die due to piracy

And you have a part in this outcome.

If, just in case, you use a cracked version, you should stop it, or you will have an outdated & dead app (just like how piracy looks) with no bug fixes.

There are no free gifts.

[sd309991]

Thank you very much, Gileili. Have just bought the software.

[jakkaas]

Support independent developer. Window top is really affordable and with loads of features. So, those who love the product should buy and support the developer.

[Mystqr4]

This is disappointing to read.

Not quite sure what to say here but honestly not continuing development is not the way to go. I paid for this software and it was nice knowing that I was able to support development. I felt the license was pretty well priced, the cost covering 3 licenses also and it being a lifetime license is what made all the difference to me not to mention a passionate and dedicated development.
If people can afford it is definitely a must.

Piracy is bound to happen but I wonder if there are some things that can be done to pull in some of these users like perhaps offering discount coupons. (Just a thought) Maybe something you could do on special occasions or through other means.

I will say not everyone that pirates becomes a lifetime pirate, often at times these people become valued customers so please try to think about that not to mention that some of these pirates may be highly skilled and maybe even be able to help resolve some bugs. Piracy can be a great advertisement too.
It's probably not what you want to hear but dwelling on it and not continuing development is probably not the way to go and will only disgruntle the people that have paid for it or potential customers.

I would love to see this project continue for many years to come as there is absolutely nothing on the market like this not to mention a developer and team that is so responsive and keyed into things.

This is a real bummer man.

[gileli121]

@Mystqr4
I used the word "suspend" and not "stop".
I chose the word carefully.
It is just a way to make users who use crack take it more seriously.

I love to work on this project and stopping to do it is the very last thing that I will do.

Edit:
I replaced: "I decided to suspend more developments" with "I decided to reduce development efforts"
Now it should be clear

[Mystqr4]

I understood it but I guess the alarmist in me was seeing where this could potentially lead.
On the flip side I would also like you to have quality of life too and not get burned out coding either so perhaps this "reduced development efforts" could be a good thing for you. I'm sure you wouldn't let this project die or go great lengths of time without updates and continue with critical issues.

I'm glad you love working on this project. It's a pretty neat one for sure.

That's cool. I feel as though your message is pretty clear and more so now.
It would be cool to see a sudden influx in paying customers for you though.

I will add that I don't blame you and that my disappointments are directed more towards the impact this kind of thing has.

[d-j-a]

I love the software; it makes my day-to-day job much easier. Please continue the outstanding work.

Perhaps there is a way to adjust the license activation to prevent such abuse.

[KaKi87]

btw you're using a free and open source platform (git) to distribute your freemium and proprietary software.
Also, most people can't affort paying for every single paid software they want to use, that's why premium content aggregators (e.g. Google Play Pass for Android apps, Spotify for music, Netflix for cinema) exist.
We just need the same thing for desktop apps.
Until then : proud to pirate.

[CybaGirl]

btw you're using a free and open source platform (git) to distribute your freemium and proprietary software. Also, most people can't affort paying for every single paid software they want to use, that's why premium content aggregators (e.g. Google Play Pass for Android apps, Spotify for music, Netflix for cinema) exist. We just need the same thing for desktop apps. Until then : proud to pirate.

So you are saying you are so cheap that you cannot afford to pay $10.00 to keep the project alive?

I agree some software houses charge too much for their products and that is why many pirate their programs for.

But what's $10.00 to support a worthy cause and an awesome program?

[KaKi87]

What I meant is : I can't pay $10 for every awesome project I use.

However, I could pay $10 every month for unlimited use of all awesome projects in the world.

[Mystqr4]

I would personally hate to see some sort of netflix or service for software. It's pretty clear those sorts of systems only benefit the parent companies and not the actual developer or producer themselves. Look how well the entire streaming garbage is going now... its a slippery slope and I would rather not have a monthly fee attached to my software regardless of how much I get for that $10 monthly fee. It's truly a system that will lead to abuse from its operators.

I don't want to see a dramatic change to the licensing system. I have paid for software with such schemes and I always feel like there is some overheads for such over the top protection schemes and in fact it is true as it will just add to development costs which ultimately gets passed onto the end user and more than that it will likely be more additional hoops to jump through or worse yet just use up more system resources.

I'm wondering how many "awesome" projects you have that you can't afford to pay $10 each for as a one time payment for but can afford to pay $10 a month for the rest of your life as another ongoing bill hanging over your head. I would rather pay $10 once and be done with it without having to keep paying for it and anything else for the rest of my life.
I am pretty sure that all of these services are cracked too.

I'm not begrudging pirates, there will always be users that will find a way to use software for free just as there will always be people that can and will be able to afford to pay for software. I don't feel that pirates are absolutely evil. Some people just cannot afford stuff and its questionable whether they would ever buy it so its best to just focus on paying customers.

Things that can and will lure pirates are as follows reliable development (check), Lifetime license (check), affordable prices (Check), Multi system licenses (check), offer discount coupons (?) and no odd activation schemes (semi check here), reasonable freeware version (check).
From what I have seen over the years a developers attitude can also appeal to pirates. If you're an aggressive developer that attacks people and piracy in an aggressive manner you will fall out of favor to pirates. People that reverse engineer are always going to do that but the way in which people see you may ultimately be the deciding factor as to if they choose to support the project financially. This point isn't true here as I have found the developer to be accommodating and engaging not to mention eager to work on the software and address problems.
I have seen some pretty aggressive developers over my years and honestly they tend to get left in the dust because nobody in their right mind would trust them with their hard earned cash or otherwise.

WinRAR is widely pirated but I have also read countless comments over the years of people that chose to pay for it out of gratitude and perhaps a little guilt after many years of pirating it.
I feel like it's nice to be able to log into my computer and know that I have paid for such software and if there is an update I don't have to jump through so many hoops to get it working.

[KaKi87]

It's pretty clear those sorts of systems only benefit the parent companies and not the actual developer or producer themselves.

That's because of producers resisting change, keeping their exclusive content for themselves.
But, if they would embrace this change, then they could create a united company that everyone would benefit from.
Yes, they would gain less money individually, but more collectively.

I'm wondering how many "awesome" projects you have that you can't afford to pay $10 each for as a one time payment for but can afford to pay $10 a month for the rest of your life as another ongoing bill hanging over your head.

So much that creating an app that automates most software cracking steps was cost-effective in time.

[gileli121]

@KaKi87

Interesting, I will not be surprised if KaKi87 is the cracker because he wrote the cracker app assistant tool (or whatever it is).
git.kaki87.net/warez/crack-assistant

I will not waste time arguing with you.
I know that your internet probably costs much more than the app's price and that there are not a lot of "awesome projects" out there.

Anyway, please tell your friends in your questionable business to add a warning to the pirate releases link to this page, or at minimum, please write some note that suggests purchasing it if the user can afford it.

[sebastienbo]

WindowTop became popular enough to get cracked very fast after each release.

I decided to reduce development efforts in this project because more people have started using the cracked version. If this is not going to change, this project will die due to piracy And you have a part in this outcome.

If, just in case, you use a cracked version, you should stop it, or you will have an outdated & dead app (just like how piracy looks) with no bug fixes.

There are no free gifts.

Hi,

I'm just new to your app, and it changed my life in so many ways.
I can't believe people are not paying for it.
The ammount is so small.

I've purchased it through the windows store, but I'm gonna purchase two seprate licenses from your website so that you get all the gains. Your really deserve it, what a wonderfull product. I'll make sure to recommend it to my other IT engeneer friends.

For those that use the cracked version , at least they won't have support, which is also essential i think.
Well I hope you only help people that have legal paid licenses :-)

I love every feature, there is only one thing that i'm missing personally in the paid version: That's the ability to reset the window settings, because now I can save my window settings, but if I want to undo everything it takes many clicks, while a reset button next to the save button could that in one click.

I thank you very much for this tool and hope it thrives.

ps: You'll see the extra purchased licenses in a few minutes ;-) Have a nice day

[gileli121]

@sebastienbo
Thanks a lot!
I really appreciate your support!

[Coldblackice]

Pirates gonna pirate. It's inevitable, and short of cloud SaaS, it's (ultimately) unstoppable.

The best way to fight piracy is A.) create cool software that people like, B.) that's reasonably priced, and C.) is actively developed, such that word-of-mouth increasingly brings to the screens of those able and willing to pay for it.

The worst thing to do would be to gimp development, as that would stunt its snowballing reach via word-of-mouth, and even contribute to a piracy justification of "Well, the dev doesn't seem to care about this project anyway, so no sense supporting it."

I get the frustration -- no dev should have to work for free, and it's maddening knowing freeloaders are out there taking and even distributing that work for free.

Just realize the majority of those pirate freeloaders weren't going to pay anyway, so it's not necessarily lost sales. Likewise, some pirates will eventually pay, and/or at least function as unwitting QA/testers, as well as advertising to other future potential buyers via word-of-mouth.

[sebastienbo]

The best way to fight piracy is A.) create cool software that people like, B.) that's reasonably priced, and C.) is actively developed, such that word-of-mouth increasingly brings to the screens of those able and willing to pay for it.

I like your statement, you are proably right, fighting piracy might just be a waste of energy.
There are however also strangly enough also benefits to piracy for the developer: usually piracy is a very fast way to make your product known, which in turns increases you chances of encoutering those that are willingly to pay for it (like you said).
On that note: i think it is not just willing to pay for it, but also "able" to pay for it.
This is closely related to your point B, reasonably priced. This was for me the reason I payed for windowstop software.
And the fact that the developer made this post explaining why it is imortant to support him (continious dev) was the reason i purchased a few more licenses (compensate a bit for the others).

Setting Pricing is something really curious, for example:
Set your pricing to 70 euro and suddenly you have nobody that purchases your product anymore.(no income)
Set your pricing at 50 euro and you might have a 100 purchasers ( 5000 euro income)
Set your pricing at 10 euro and you might have 10.000 purchasers (100.000 euro income)
lowering the price might actually increase income as you can see, therfore increasing it might do the opposite effect.

For me something that pushes me to piracy or just another product is unreasanable pricing or subscriptions .
I really really hate subscriptions, at some point you have so many subscriptions that it becomes financially dangerous.
It is to mee as bad as having credit cards (causing you to live in credit all the time with sometimes very high unexpected ammounts (it all adds up quickly))

So I stay away of credit cards and subscriptions for this reason.
I prefer to pay a bit more for a life long license then beeing stuck in a subscription black hole.

I'm not sure if all freeloaders weren't going to not pay anyway, because it might be that they don't have enough money, or find the pricing to high or just don't need support or advanced features.

For me windowstop is a real game changer which enhances my productivity , it would be a big loss if it would be gone.

I do think that maybe the developer should do some pr (selling he's product), for example by ensuring there are some reviews of he's tool. i for example was experimenting with keep on top software for 2 years and I never encountered a review about windows top, I was amazerd to see it already existed that long, and that it had even better features then the competition.
So why didn't i encounter it sooner if I was looking so much for such tools in the past.

[gileli121]

Thank you for the great call.
I agree with both of you.

@sebastienbo
Thanks for the support; I really appreciate it.

About what you said here:

I do think that maybe the developer should do some pr (selling he's product), for example by ensuring there are some reviews of he's tool. i for example was experimenting with keep on top software for 2 years and I never encountered a review about windows top, I was amazerd to see it already existed that long, and that it had even better features then the competition. So why didn't I encounter it sooner if I was looking so much for such tools in the past.

I don't try to promote the product on purpose.
If you need to promote it, it means the product needs to be better.
The product should be good so that people hear about it from other people who like it.
This is how it should work. It is probably the hard way but also the correct way.
It is also a way of testing whether the product is good.
Promoting something that may not be good may more likely damage its rating in the Microsoft Store.
The current way is working great - I get a lot of great reviews in the Microsoft Store, and the score is 4.7-4.8 stars from about 140 reviews in the US only. This is a big number because I am a small business. Microsoft owns a similar product - PowerToys, that got 890 reviews in the US, but it is promoted by Microsoft and promoted and again: by MICROSOFT (a huge company). I see nothing else (third-party tools like WindowTop for productivity) close to this amount of ratings and popularity.

[sebastienbo]

About the windows store I noticed I typed "window top" it couldn't find your app.
But there was another pin to desktop app...
And when I typed "WindowTop" without space I got both (yours & the other one)
He's app got two search hits, while yours only one

I think you should write in the description field of your app "Windows top" with a space so that it can be found when typed appart

[gileli121]

Thanks for the idea.
Yes, I know someone is trying to copy it (even almost the name).
It is another sign that it is a good product.
And he got only one star. Probably because users don't like what he did or because his product is not good like this.

Thanks for the suggestion.
Bad that I did not think about reserving the "Window Top" name in the store settings... That copier took this name, but your suggestion to write it in the description may be an alternative solution.

I also reserved the name "WindowsTop" so no one else can take it in the store.
Indeed few users think to search for "WindowsTop" by mistake.

It was indeed a good call. Thank you.

[KaKi87]

If you need to promote it, it means the product needs to be better.

Wrong : most people don't know what can improve their productivity (or any other aspect of their lives) until you present them with options.

[sebastienbo]

I agree, i'm IT Software engineer and even for me it took a few years before I was thinking, "I wonder if something could keep my windows on top instead of having to juggle with them"
I don't think my parents would ever start searching randomly something like that, even though they also struggle with window manipulations on single montor computers (laptops).

[XenSide]

I don't know man, this just makes me not want to buy a license because of fear of deprecation/slow development of the project.

Everyone in here gets it, piracy wrong, but this half-threat kind of thing put in the front of the repo just makes legit users interested in the software not want to support it, because of fear of not having a product in a couple of months or having a stalled feature-set, or at least it did for me.

[gileli121]

@XenSide

Fear? You got it wrong.
I mistakenly thought I had unpinned this issue, but it still pinned.
No, there is no fear at all.
When I wrote this post, I had a little after Microsoft implemented one feature to their PT tool. And it started about the same time when cracks came out, so these reasons caused me to worry a little.
But the reality has surprised me since then.

People are still purchasing it and purchasing it even more. So no fear at all.
I even invested more than two months in developing the crop feature from here #133
And now, I moved to develop two more features. All will be included in v5.20.
It is now available in v5.20 beta; that you can download it from here:
https://github.com/WindowTop/WindowTop-App/releases/tag/v5.20.0

[gileli121]

Things changed since the last post.

I am still determining exactly why.
The cracks come out again, and more and more YouTubers & bloggers always talk about the big guy in this competition (Microsoft). These are the only reasons I can think of - crack and unfair competition (because I am nobody and don't own the "Microsoft" brand).

I have so much to say about the unfair competition, but then it will be too long. I will try to put it in a short story:
Imagine building the perfect tool that works great; users are very happy. Suddenly, a big guy called "Microsoft" did the same feature but did it very, very, very poorly... extremely buggy, unstable, and less functionality.. but then you suddenly hear that all main YouTubers and bloggers talk only about their stuff.
That thing is called "unfair competition". They talk about their stuff only because my name is not "Microsoft" and their name is "Microsoft". and what they did works like crap. Cracks are not the thing that breaks me. But this is too hard for me.

My way of life - if the world does not give you back, don't give the world.
So, this is how it will work as long as it will not change.

There is something that drives me crazy. I do see great user feedback that supports my argument (that it is probably better)

Without any promotion, without a big brand ("Microsoft".. I am nobody and not a known developer), and still - the number of reviews in the US (in Microsoft store) is 23% (233) of a product that gets extreme promotion (every two days average, another YouTuber talk about it) + use big guy brand (the big guy's class... like Microsoft, apple... not from the nobody class from where I come). Not only that, it gets 4.7, which is higher than 4.6. in the last month, the score increased to 4.8. a way better than what they got.

And yet, somehow, the users only invest time to write a great review on the store. But no one takes it to the next step.
Maybe they expect that I will do it. But this is different from how it works on my side - when I work on the app - I am 200% in making the best implementation and code. This project is 50% hobby and 50% a nice-to-have side income (but not as a primary job replacement). My second argument is that motivation is reduced due to the recently increased unfair competition. So, I really don't see myself investing in promotion. If users avoid sharing it or writing on it because they assume that I will do it - then you have a mistake.

So again, if anyone thinks that it is worth sharing, do it. Review on the store is great, and I am really grateful for the great reviews. But I need more due to the unfair competition and because I don't see myself investing in promotion. My hobby is writing perfect tools rather than investing in advertising.

[gileli121]

Always on Top is free on this app even after the trial ended

[gileli121]

@definitelynotklip

The app does not ask for money to use it is always on top.
There are some other features that are very complex to make and they cost money.

I don't know how you got it wrong but if you can share feedback on how to make it clear that AOT is free I will appreciate it.

I am asking money not for simple features like AOT.
So your whole comment is not relevant

Edit: I saw that you deleted your comment. you also understand that your comment was irrelevant and I appreciate it, you did the right thing.

[naveed-patel]

Wow, saw it and purchased it in like 15 mins.

[wwxiaoqi]

The Microsoft Store allowed me to overcome all obstacles and successfully purchase it. I am from China

[agatakotecka]

Not going to disagree in principle with you, but there are people who ideologically won't purchase a software and will always switch to pirated version, therefore you don't have loss from these because they wouldn't play you anyway.

Even if your program wasn't cracked there would still be people who wouldn't buy from you due to price etc, and they would wait as long as they can for pirated version.

There is no 100% protection against cracking. Probably you should consider switching to freeware license and to donations from users, many free programs like Notepad++ does this and their products are still developed.

And now, my case story and couple of words from myself why pirates/crackers are not 100% at fault:
Some years back, I purchased shareware program for $49 that promised me a lifetime license. I wanted to be fair to developer and didn't want to support pirates.
The program used by credentials to do a connection to licensing server to activate copy of my software on my local machine.
Some time later, my computer crashed and I had to install Windows from the scratch and the program I paid, too.
And guess what, activation server didn't work anymore. It was down forever, because developer abandoned it and ceased the development altogether.
So much of my 'lifetime license'....So I found cracked version elsewhere and wasn't feeling guilty not to use it BECAUSE I ALREADY PAID FOR IT.
Pirates are not 100% to blame.

[gileli121]

@Coldblackice

Not going to disagree in principle with you, but there are people who ideologically won't purchase a software and will always switch to pirated version, therefore you don't have loss from these because they wouldn't play you anyway.

Even if your program wasn't cracked there would still be people who wouldn't buy from you due to price etc, and they would wait as long as they can for pirated version.

There is no 100% protection against cracking. Probably you should consider switching to freeware license and to donations from users, many free programs like Notepad++ does this and their products are still developed.

I completely agree; attempting to protect against cracking is akin to trying to be a superhero. Even Sony has failed to secure the PS5 against piracy; they resort to paying hackers to avoid exposing how to crack the system. If a product is desirable, it will be cracked. Conversely, if it doesn’t get cracked, the underlying issue is likely that the product is unwanted—which raises questions about the viability of the business overall.

A more realistic expectation regarding protection involves techniques like code obfuscation. Expecting to achieve 100% protection against crack, especially when even major companies struggle with it, is unrealistic.

I understand that cracking is inevitable for products people want. However, there are those who avoid using cracked versions due to concerns about viruses (which are prevalent in pirated software). Others prefer to pay to support development or to feel they are acting legally. Most of these individuals are unlikely to object to a reasonable price (around $10-$15).

And guess what, activation server didn't work anymore. It was down forever, because developer abandoned it and ceased the development altogether.
So much of my 'lifetime license'....So I found cracked version elsewhere and wasn't feeling guilty not to use it BECAUSE I ALREADY PAID FOR IT.
Pirates are not 100% to blame.

Regarding this scenario, I actually took it into account when developing the licensing system. If you use a version not from the Microsoft Store and enter a license key that fails to connect to the licensing server (due to internet or server issues), it will still activate. In this case, a small warning will indicate that the license could not be validated, but the app will still function normally.

This applies only to non-Microsoft Store versions. The Microsoft Store version relies on licensing services provided by Microsoft, and I believe that these services will not shut down; otherwise, it would create a significant issue for all other apps in their store that depend on it.

[agatakotecka]

Fair play to you @gileli121. Appreciate your efforts.
Good advertisement and promotion across many channels will be a key for you, the more people will hear of this good program the more will buy it.
And it's a niche product, I haven't found any other that offers the same, so you have good chance of staying afloat and be satisfied with its revenue. MS hasn't been really tackling offering dark mode feature application-wide (or even Windows system wide).
Not sure how feasible would be to expand the program to Mac OS, or how difficult it would be, but it can be another idea for you? Mac apps get cracked way less than Windows ones.