What does continuous_pick_up or dropoff mean for flex zones?

[leonardehrenfried]

When implementing Flex v2 support we noticed the following combination that we don't know how to interpret:

The feed available at http://oregon-gtfs.com/gtfs_data/lincolncounty-or-us/lincolncounty-or-us--flex-v2.zip contains the following stop_times for trip t_299275_b_26748_tn_0:

trip_id,arrival_time,departure_time,stop_id,stop_sequence,stop_headsign,pickup_type,drop_off_type,shape_dist_traveled,timepoint,start_service_area_id,end_service_area_id,start_service_area_radius,end_service_area_radius,continuous_pickup,continuous_drop_off,pickup_booking_rule_id,drop_off_booking_rule_id,min_arrival_time,max_departure_time,mean_duration_factor,mean_duration_offset,safe_duration_factor,safe_duration_offset
881:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16069_s_16024,1,,0,0,0,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
882:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16024_s_16025,2,,0,0,775.596266212284,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
883:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16025_s_16026,3,,0,0,1807.22190535612,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
884:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16026_s_2483495,4,,0,0,2766.28482550726,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
885:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_2483495_s_29681,5,,0,0,5416.75044306174,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
886:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_29681_s_16032,6,,0,0,6436.45201007476,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
887:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16032_s_2438933,7,,0,0,7576.71452995217,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
888:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_2438933_s_16031,8,,0,0,8240.84195654157,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
889:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16031_s_16030,9,,0,0,8527.62288862872,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
890:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16030_s_16033,10,,0,0,8932.84679637186,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
891:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16033_s_16034,11,,0,0,9165.13404331625,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
892:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16034_s_15889,12,,0,0,9628.59060260394,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
893:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_15889_s_16039,13,,0,0,10510.9386855591,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
894:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16039_s_16040,14,,0,0,11686.4154079233,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
895:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16040_s_16042,15,,0,0,12047.7835753043,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
896:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16042_s_16043,16,,0,0,12324.4604601439,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
897:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16043_s_16044,17,,0,0,12526.5458089135,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
898:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16044_s_16045,18,,0,0,12886.5424727922,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
899:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16045_s_15942,19,,0,0,13106.2063391676,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
900:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_15942_s_16048,20,,0,0,15282.8820371869,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
901:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16048_s_2438934,21,,2,3,17060.1720314054,0,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
902:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_2438934_s_16049,22,,0,0,18604.0056042532,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
903:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16049_s_16050,23,,0,0,19098.7301834617,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
904:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16050_s_16051,24,,0,0,19388.6880759922,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
905:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16051_s_16052,25,,0,0,20425.6382579853,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
906:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16052_s_16053,26,,0,0,20752.5347065814,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
907:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16053_s_833259,27,,0,0,21230.9536762786,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
908:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_833259_s_16275,28,,0,0,23127.0336395412,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
909:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16275_s_16055,29,,0,0,23551.6916242021,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
910:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16055_s_16057,30,,0,0,23808.8722434897,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
911:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16057_s_16058,31,,0,0,24487.418244042,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
912:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16058_s_16059,32,,0,0,24680.6102514857,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
913:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16059_s_16060,33,,0,0,25614.1591340582,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
914:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16060_s_16061,34,,0,0,26256.131709164,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
915:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16061_s_16062,35,,0,0,27180.643659028,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
916:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16062_s_16063,36,,0,0,27686.863698439,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
917:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16063_s_15890,37,,0,0,28259.1890347633,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
918:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_15890_s_2438932,38,,0,0,28886.6228332024,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
919:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_2438932_s_16065,39,,2,3,29619.901749005,0,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
920:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16065_s_2483495,40,,0,0,30254.2525223819,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
921:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_2483495_s_16066,41,,2,3,30838.8763853997,0,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
922:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16066_s_16068,42,,0,0,32312.2465968761,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
923:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16068_s_16069,43,,0,0,34898.4147967777,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
924:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16069_s_16069,44,,0,0,36360.0641114,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
881:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16069_s_16024,1,,0,0,0,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
882:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16024_s_16025,2,,0,0,775.596266212284,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
883:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16025_s_16026,3,,0,0,1807.22190535612,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
884:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16026_s_2483495,4,,0,0,2766.28482550726,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
885:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_2483495_s_29681,5,,0,0,5416.75044306174,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
886:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_29681_s_16032,6,,0,0,6436.45201007476,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
887:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16032_s_2438933,7,,0,0,7576.71452995217,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
888:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_2438933_s_16031,8,,0,0,8240.84195654157,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
889:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16031_s_16030,9,,0,0,8527.62288862872,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
890:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16030_s_16033,10,,0,0,8932.84679637186,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
891:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16033_s_16034,11,,0,0,9165.13404331625,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
892:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16034_s_15889,12,,0,0,9628.59060260394,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
893:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_15889_s_16039,13,,0,0,10510.9386855591,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
894:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16039_s_16040,14,,0,0,11686.4154079233,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
895:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16040_s_16042,15,,0,0,12047.7835753043,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
896:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16042_s_16043,16,,0,0,12324.4604601439,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
897:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16043_s_16044,17,,0,0,12526.5458089135,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
898:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16044_s_16045,18,,0,0,12886.5424727922,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
899:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16045_s_15942,19,,0,0,13106.2063391676,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
900:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_15942_s_16048,20,,0,0,15282.8820371869,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
901:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16048_s_2438934,21,,2,3,17060.1720314054,0,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
902:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_2438934_s_16049,22,,0,0,18604.0056042532,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
903:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16049_s_16050,23,,0,0,19098.7301834617,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
904:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16050_s_16051,24,,0,0,19388.6880759922,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
905:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16051_s_16052,25,,0,0,20425.6382579853,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
906:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16052_s_16053,26,,0,0,20752.5347065814,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
907:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16053_s_833259,27,,0,0,21230.9536762786,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
908:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_833259_s_16275,28,,0,0,23127.0336395412,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
909:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16275_s_16055,29,,0,0,23551.6916242021,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
910:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16055_s_16057,30,,0,0,23808.8722434897,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
911:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16057_s_16058,31,,0,0,24487.418244042,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
912:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16058_s_16059,32,,0,0,24680.6102514857,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
913:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16059_s_16060,33,,0,0,25614.1591340582,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
914:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16060_s_16061,34,,0,0,26256.131709164,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
915:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16061_s_16062,35,,0,0,27180.643659028,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
916:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16062_s_16063,36,,0,0,27686.863698439,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
917:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16063_s_15890,37,,0,0,28259.1890347633,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
918:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_15890_s_2438932,38,,0,0,28886.6228332024,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
919:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_2438932_s_16065,39,,2,3,29619.901749005,0,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
920:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16065_s_2483495,40,,0,0,30254.2525223819,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
921:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_2483495_s_16066,41,,2,3,30838.8763853997,0,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
922:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16066_s_16068,42,,0,0,32312.2465968761,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
923:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16068_s_16069,43,,0,0,34898.4147967777,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00
924:t_299275_b_26748_tn_0,,,radius_1207_s_16069_s_16069,44,,0,0,36360.0641114,1,,,,,2,3,booking_route_491,booking_route_491,,,1,00:03:00,1,00:05:00

Here we see that the stop_times has continuous_pickup and dropoff set to 2 and 3 respectively.

The GTFS-Static spec says about these fields:

Indicates whether a rider can board the transit vehicle anywhere along the vehicle’s travel path. The path is described by shapes.txt on every trip of the route.

Can someone explain how this is meant to be interpreted in the context of flex stops? Does it mean that the vehicle follows the shape or that it doesn't?

Or is this perhaps a remnant in the feed to stay compatible with consumers that implement it and show it as some sort of "quasi-flex"?

[leonardehrenfried]

cc @hannesj

[westontrillium]

Hey Leonard. This data looks incorrect (it's one of our feeds, so thanks for flagging!)–it looks to be the result of maintaining this data on our backend to be compatible with both v1 and v2 exports, and something went awry along the way.

This is supposed to be a deviating service that also has continuous stopping, but as you can see, it's only including the deviation zones (no fixed stops) and incorrectly using the continuous_pickup/drop_off fields, making continuous stopping moot. Instead, the data should read:

1. fixed stop1 with pickup/drop_off_type=0 and continuous_pickup/continuous_drop_off≠1
2. locations.geojson deviation A (pickup_type/drop_off_type=2,2 or 2/3) with a window using stop1 and stop2's arrival times
3. fixed stop2 with pickup/drop_off_type=0 and continuous_pickup/continuous_drop_off≠1
4. locations.geojson deviation B (pickup_type/drop_off_type=2,2 or 2/3) with a window using stop2 and stop3's arrival times
5. fixed stop3 with pickup/drop_off_type=0 and continuous_pickup/continuous_drop_off≠1
   [etc.]

The reason we may include deviation zones and continuous stopping rules in the same trip is to be able to define different pickup and drop-off rules for each if the route offers both. For example, one may be able to wave the driver down to be picked up along the route (continuous_pickup=3) but must call the agency for a deviation away from the path-of-travel (pickup_type=2).

[leonardehrenfried]

Ok, should these fields then be conditionally forbidden or are these combinations valid?

[westontrillium]

Hmm, I think we would want to conditionally forbid continuous pickup/drop-off for stop_times that refer to a locations.geojson or location_group. I can't think of any issues with that, since even including continuous pickup/drop-off for a line string would be redundant.

[amenk]

Here is the old documentation:

https://github.com/MobilityData/gtfs-flex/blob/37163388afdab5a255a28d904f44cb835f92d0f6/spec/reference.md#request-stops

But I am wondering if continuous_pickup & continuous_drop_off is still part of the spec?

[westontrillium]

It is part of the core GTFS standard now, so in that sense it is part of Flex. There is nothing that conflicts with Flex apart from needing to conditionally forbid continuous pickup/drop-off for locations.geojson/location_group(soon-to-be stop_areas.txt).

[amenk]

Great https://github.com/MobilityData/gtfs.org/blob/707935ff8b6219e1c66fb745e027e5cb189edf86/docs/schedule/examples/continuous-stops.md